crotch rockets

[ride]

I was wondering if anyone has any opinions on these machines.
This past weekend ,a "criminal justice major" student, was racing down a major four lane(not a limited entry road) highway with a freind of his.
A man and his mother,his girlfreind and her 11 yr. old daughter, were making a left hand turn across in front of the bikes. As you would quess the one bike teeboned the mini van. Hit it like a bullet, rolling it on its side and exploded. All five are dead. the biker was beheaded. He was estimated going between 100 mph and 145mph. No chance! no skid marks.


I really can't say that I'm against these bikes, cause I used to own one. Sold it after one year, feeling that I lived throught it.
I feel that something should be done about it but not sure what.

What are YOUR thoughts !!!!

[kender]

Granted the guy was speeding, but the minivan should have been watching the road better. even at 100mph you still have to be pretty close for the bike to hit the van and not have the reaction time to lay down a skid mark. The driver of the van, sorry to say the driver of the van got an eye for an eye, his/her driving caused the death of a biker and they forfietted their life in return. I feel sorry for the passengers that had no control in the incident and their deaths are a tragic loss. The bike I feel bad for as well. Who says they are racing. just because 2 bikes were speeding and they were near each other doesn't mean they were racing. If they were racing and that was the sole reason for them to be speeding then the biker got what he deserved...Yes I am really hard on street racing...however if he was just speeding and being an idiot for doing it through a traffic light, then he didn't deserve to die, but at those speeds he should have his license suspended...a little late now.

It is things like this incident that make me think that an MSF course should be manditory for everyone...not just bikers, cagers need to be aware as well.

I do think that sportbikes make a person loose a few points on the common sense meter the minute they throw a leg over the seat. The bike was built for speed and turns....basically the race track, and they should have stayed there. It would be like driving an indy car on the road, and to the extent that sport bikes are driven on the road.....it's just not a good idea.

I was throwing around the idea of getting a sport bike when I sold by old rebel. I like the idea of the power and agility that they have, but the rider position and the ability to slip off the clutch and end up with a tire in the air was a little too much. I sat on several sport bikes and while they are nice, just appreciating a nice bike, the comfort and position of the vtx, and coming from the rebel, I am partial to the hondas. I do have a project car that is also my daily driver, and am in the process of selling the parts for the project portion of the car. when I decided to sell the stuff I started looking at different bikes and doing some observations on the instances of "rider down" and what type of bike.

It seems that the sportbikes have the higher instance by far. I think this is due to the average rider on a sport bike is barely out of highschool and those who are tend to still have the immaturity of late adolesence. Not all but the majority. This inexperience on bikes and lack of maturity to make good judgment leads to rider deceleration trauma. In contrast the only times I hear of the rare instance of a cruiser going down is when the cagers around them don't pay attention and the biker is stuck with no way out.

[HeadGuess]

To have an opinion about a biker and/or the death is one thing, but to judge them and say they deserve death is another altogether.

I don't agree with the rate of speed the biker was aledgedly going, but I can't and will not judge him and say he deserved to die for a mistake. The family that pulled out in front of him certainly paid the ultimate price and they certainly did not deserve that either. Anybody that gets behind a steering wheel or on a bike has a lot of responsibility not only for themselves, but anybody else they may come in contact with.

My prayers are with BOTH families!

[mark]

Kender, let me get this straight - the guy on the sport bike is going between 100 - 145 mph and you blame the driver of the minivan!
Do you realize how much real estate you cover at that speed?
This is just another example of a tragedy that could have been avoided and my heart goes out to all concerned.

[kender]

While I see your point of view, and I don't WISH death to anyone, I have to disagree. If you are going to take on the responsibility of operating a vehicle on the roads shared by everyone then you need to drive/ride responsibly. I am not saying don't speed. I am saying that if your going to speed to that extent do it on a dry road, with traffic going the same direction and light traffic. zipping in and out of traffic to get ahead of the pack, or speeding to that extreem through an intersection is totally irresponsible. It's like a cop pulling out their gun and shooting a warning shot in the air, without realizing they are indoors. when the bullet ricochets and kills the cop....he had it coming. I drive on these roads, my family drives on these roads, and if your going to do something that puts them at a risk of injury above the normal danger present from just being in traffic, then that person who is elevating the risk deserves the consequences of their actions. It's unfortunate that it had to be a multivehicle collision and not a single vehicle crash.

The rider may have been a good person, and may have lived the best life ever....but if your going to jeopardize me getting home to my family then I have no sympathy for them, the ones that they leave behind I feel bad for. I am not saying they are bad people, they made a bad choice, but that choice affects me and my loved ones and I have no room for sympathy when you do something that endangers me or mine.

I drive and ride with the intent that everyone makes it home alive...If I am going to watch out for you then I expect the same. If you are going to drive/ride like your only concerned with yourself then when something happens to you I am only going to be concerned with myself.

His speed may not have been as fast as they say. People see a bike doing 65 in a 50 and the bikers speed gets doubled. But given the number of people in a minivan that died from a sportbike hitting them it had to be more than just a few miles over the limit. If my some freak of science he was doing 50 in a 50 and these deaths still occured then I will feel sorry for him, but the result points to a much higher speed. The minivan didn't look out either, the driver cut infront of a bike, probably from not keeping an eye on the road far enough ahead where do think my sympathy for them lies? the passengers have no fault. The driver could have easily put you or me flat on our backs....that puts the driver between me and my family.

I may have a harsh opinion, but I have been affected by irresponsible drivers. Don't confuse being a responsible driver with following all the traffic laws, there are plenty laws that are actually counter productive to responsible driving.

[kender]

Kender, let me get this straight - the guy on the sport bike is going between 100 - 145 mph and you blame the driver of the minivan!
Do you realize how much real estate you cover at that speed?
This is just another example of a tragedy that could have been avoided and my heart goes out to all concerned.


Yes I am blaming the van, the biker may have been speeding, but the van failed to yield ride of way. who is mor at fault, the guy speeding or the guy that turns into your lane across your path of travel.

At 145mph you cover approx 213 feet per second. At 100mph you cover approx 147 feet per second. At 11 miles an hour that minivan would have moved 16 feet in one second so if they were looking just 213 feet down the road they would have seen the bike, had they been watching down the road they would have seen the bike in the distance and then seen it getting in closer quickly. regardless of the bikes speed the bike had the right of way, the mini van failed to yeild the right of way, the bike was at most 213 feet down the road and the van tried to jump out across traffic, in regular traffic doing 60 mph most people won't cross infront of a car that's 213 feet down the road. keep in mind that these figures put the vans rear bumper inches past the bike after crossing infront of it. the bike would have been less than 213 feet for them to collide with the van, or the van was going slower than 11mph, my car idles at 10mph.

You can't use the argument that the bike was speeding and had they been going slower they wouldn't have been in that spot at that time, because had the bike been going faster he would have been past the van. That logic can also be used to say that in a dui the car with the sober driver is at fault because had they been driving slower they wouldn't have been there at that time. speeding contributed to the fatalities, and may have contributed to the crash as a whole, but the cause of the crash was the vans failure to yeild to on-coming traffic. The speed of the bike without any skid marks can not be proven, and witnesses are not reliable judges of speed, but the mini vans failure to observe the bikes right of way is proven by the vehicles position, and the witnesses can reliably say which vehicle was in what lane and traveling in what direction.

I agree that the tragedy could have been avoided by both the driver and the rider operating their vehicles in a responsible manner. The bike by going slower, and expecting the van to pull out infront of him....then the van by watching the road ahead of him further than just the intersection itself. I don't know how it is in other states, but by Florida statutes the van was at fault.

[Big-X]

There are way to many unknows to say the driver of the van was at fault....too many what if's/

What if the bike was behind a can and swerved around it?

Sorry, but at that speed the bike could have EASILY been out of view behind other cars and in a second been in the side of the van.

http://www.sungazette.com/storyPhotos/crash(1).jpg

[kender]

regardless of speed, if the biker pulled out from behind a car then there was a car and the van wanted to pull infront of the car. get rid of all the variables, the van pulled into a lane of traffic that had on coming vehicles. the van did not make sure the lane was free of on comming traffic before he crossed it.

[kender]

I think this video that Big X posted before sums up what can happen when the "other guy" is going too fast for conditions. We have to look out for everyone else that isn't doing what they are supposed to do. Remember, right or wrong, dead is dead...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3331447256714409955&q=motorcycle+safety (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3331447256714409955&q=motorcycle+safety)

No doubt, I have many times gone above and beyond what a normal driver would do just to avoid a crash. I almost got rear ended ( in my durango)when traffic suddenly stopped, I watched my rear view as well, knowing traffic behind me was in the same boat I was. I was able to keep the presence of mind to realize I needed to let off the brakes and pull to the side, not just hit the brakes and stay in the lane. Had I not moved forward I would have been rear ended.....It would have been the other persons fault, but at the end of the day I wouldn't have done my part to look out for everyones best interest.

We all need to go home, and even if you have the right of way, that doesn't mean the best idea is keep going, sometimes you have to allow the other person to violate your right of way, inorder to avaoid a crash. whether your in the right or wrong, in the end what's better for all involved.

[ride]

further reports on this incident is that these two riders were weaving in and out of traffic all the way down this road at high speed.. I'd really have to say that the person driving the van, should of, gave a longer look, but that is truly quessing at the circumstances. The only thing the law will look at in this instance is that the bike was speeding .That is one actual fact that they can use. This part of the highway has killed 8 people in the last nine days.
A very high danger road. the feds as well asPenn Dot is examining this with great attention.


Further; We lost a high school senior two years ago 1/2 a mile from my house , the same way. He was flying on his bike and a lady pulled out in front of him. She said that she saw him down the road and when she pulled out he was there.

Sometimes life sucks

stupid-hurts

[Big-X]

I'm assuming if blunt trauma didn't kill them then they burned to death.

[ride]

the report said they all died instantly but who knows

[HeadGuess]

This whole thing goes back to what we all have always been told.

SPEED KILLS!

If the rider had been doing the legal speed limit he probably would have had time to adjust and avoid an accident. If he had of been doing the legal speed limit the driver of the van would have probably had time to correct his mistake also.

I am guilty of speeding myself and I have had accidents that I probably would have been able to avoid hadI not been speeding. I was ran off the road one night and technically it was not my fault but had I not been doing in excess of 120 MPH I most likely would not have totaled my truck! I accept the fact I was a contributing factor to the accident just like the biker was even though the van did cross his path.

[Green Ghost]

You can't blame it on the motorcycle. The guy on it was twisting the grip. I hear a lot of bad things about the sport bikes. Nothing wrong with the bike, I'ts the Guy with the twisted brain aboard bike that's the problem. I've had about every make of fast bike there is. Never had but one down in over 30 years of riding. From the Huricanes to the Busa's it's the guy twisting the grip you got to watch out for. I drive a truck for a living and pull double trailers everywhere I go. Over 3450 miles every week. I can't start to tell you the stupid things I see every day on our roadways. A fatal accident almost every day on every trip.:mad:

[SAVTXRYDER]

Were they drinking? I'll never forget the statistic that 77% of all fatal motorcycle accidents involve a driver with alcohol in their system. I've only been riding for 3 weeks now and I'm still waiting for my first "oh shit" moment. And I also believe that EVERYBODY needs to take the MSF course, or at least some kind of motorcycle awareness training before they drive.

[bdsbigzrx]

as a sportsbike rider (with a clean record on the street) who has been riding for 20 years, and having plenty of trackdays under my belt, let me say this:

1) If you're going to go those speeds on the street, you BETTER make sure it's in a safe location. Safe as possible anyhow. Sounds like this guy could have picked a MUCH better spot if he wanted to wick it up a little. If you think you're fast, then take it to the track (no, not that boring 1/4 mile straight-away crap). It'll teach you a lot, and you won't try to go so fast on the street afterwards. I'd say 90-95% of the guys you see in the summer on sportbikes have on very little to no saftey/protective gear, no real experience to speak of, and often times display poor judgement, on bikes that can get you in real trouble, real quick. Fault:Biker

2) If ignoramus moron idiot cagers would learn to drive, bikers (and other cars) would have a better chance of not getting hit. How many times do drivers look left, then right, then step on it? ALL THE TIME! You almost NEVER see them look right, look left, then look right AGAIN! Heck, I look left/right probably 3-4 times EACH WAY and I KEEP doing it as I am pulling out or across a road. If you are paying attention and look TWICE each direction, it'll be MUCH easier to gauge an oncoming vehicles speed, which you simply CAN'T do if you only look ONCE each direction, unless you're going to sit there for about 3-5 seconds looking left, then 3-5 seconds looking right. Fault: Car

Just my .02 worth.........