Car Tires Again

[Dennis Ballinger]

Tried to mount a 205/65/15 car tire on my rear 15" spoked wheel on my VTX 1800, and could not get it on the rim, tried soap, grease, ect. Anyone have success getting one on. What brand, size and how did you like the ride?
dennis

[Blue]

Guess my question would be why do it ? :hmm2:

[Dennis Ballinger]

mileage mainly-i commute 162 miles a day, mainly freeway, tried most of the major brands-have some friends that have tried it on valks and don't report any major problems

[WILD E]

I just fix a flat on the rear of my 1800 VTX Retro with spoke wheels stock Dunlop 170/80/15 . This was my 1st time at taking off the rear wheel .When I put the wheel back on I noticed there is not a lot of room to go to a much bigger / wider tire as far as being able to get the tire back on .I do not know just how big of rear tires some of the other VtX members are running but it might be more limited on the retro .
Jay

[dirtdobber]

The rear spoke wheel is made for a 170/80x15 anything any larger will look ???
If you are wanting more miliage out of a tire consider a avon venom or a metz... I have a avon venom and have over 7,000 miles on it and it looks almost new. I am expecting at least 15,000 or more. It looks larger and grips the road great. Car tires are made for cars, they are not curved on the sides like bike tires are, for safety reasons? Some have done it, personally speaking ??????????????

[Blue]

and a wide flat auto designed tire will hydroplane much faster than a motorcycle tire. Just food for thought ....

[BigVTXMan]

Tried to mount a 205/65/15 car tire on my rear 15" spoked wheel on my VTX 1800, and could not get it on the rim, tried soap, grease, ect. Anyone have success getting one on. What brand, size and how did you like the ride?
dennis

Dennis, I have an 1800C, with the 16 inch wheel, and I used the Falken ZE-512 ZIEX 205/55R16. I had a local motorcycle shop install it for me.

Question though, did you put a tube inside the tire? I read on the VTXOA site that the spoked rims need tubes.

In either case, it may be worth the $25 to have a shop mount the tire for you.

[BigVTXMan]

The rear spoke wheel is made for a 170/80x15 anything any larger will look ???
If you are wanting more miliage out of a tire consider a avon venom or a metz... I have a avon venom and have over 7,000 miles on it and it looks almost new. I am expecting at least 15,000 or more. It looks larger and grips the road great. Car tires are made for cars, they are not curved on the sides like bike tires are, for safety reasons? Some have done it, personally speaking ??????????????

I went to a car tire out of total frustration with motorcycle tires. I've had 5 rear tires so far, and have only gotten between 5k and 7k out of any of them. The ones with 7k had the steel belts showing.

I did a lot of research before I decided to put a car tire on, and I am very happy with the results. Here is a good article on the subject.

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

[BigVTXMan]

Very interesting article!
I'm going to look into this more. I wonder if I can find a car tire to replace the 240x18's I'm currently using on my VTX? My wing should fit the same size/brand tires as those specified in the article. The deal about stability in corners is still a bit of a concern though as I really enjoy agressive riding. Yes, a 240 can be ridden hard! My ground down 'boards prove that.

I've always been agressive in the curves, and living near the mountains, in Colorado, I get into the twisties a lot. I'm not going to tell you that a car tire is the same as an MC tire in the curves, however, I can tell you that I can still take curves at twice the posted speed limit, scrape pegs, etc. I do feel MUCH more confident powering OUT of a turn with the car tire. My Metzlers used to break loose on me fairly easily, but the car tire has not broken loose once. I can go WOT out of a turn without any concern.

It also tracks fine in the curves. On my first test ride with the car tire, I ran into swarms of gnats, going around a bend on a small two lane road, doing 70 mph, with one hand because I had my other hand in front of my face trying to protect my face from the bugs. It tracked perfectly.

Having said that, it does handle "differently" than an MC tire, but once you know what to expect it's no big deal. It's kind of like getting on someone elses motorcyle, of a different size/brand, and having to get used to the differences in height, weight, peg position, etc.. Once you're on it for 5-10 minutes, you really don't need to think about those things anymore.

I'm sure that you can find a 240 that would work. I know some of the guys with Triumph Rocket III's have started putting car tires on their bikes, which I believe runs a 240 rear.

[bear33]

im switching over to a car tire on my 1800c, just wondering is the 205 55 16 the same height as the mc tire, or does it matter
thanks

[SeaRider]

From what I've been reading in this thread, it looks like a properly sized car tire could work quite well.

I don't know, though. It just doesn't quite seem right to me to put a car tire on a bike. It's a tradition thing I guess. Do we try steering wheels next?? :hmm2:

[Steve591968]

From what I have heard a stock VTX will not take anything much bigger than a 200 series tire in the rear without modifying the fender. I am interested in this car tire thing though.

[bear33]

i put a 205 55 16 on the rear of my 1800c, the 1st of april and have over 4000 miles on it now, i am extremly happy with the tire, i went on a 3500 mile road trip a few weeks ago, from washingto to nevada hit every kind of road conditions you can think of . the tire worked great even in the twistys.
at 5000 miles i was changing out my mc tire. by the looks of my car tire i should get at least 15000-20000 miles
just thought i would pass on the info
bear

[Steve591968]

Hey Bear33 just our of curiosity did you have any trouble getting the tire mounted? I can hear my dealership now when I tell them I want them to put a car tire on my rim. Also there are no other mods? Fender clearance things like that are ok?

[bear33]

your right my local bike shop would not mount the tire , although they had no problem balancing it for me after i mounted it on my rim.(they might tell you your nuts, i say dont knock it until you try it)
i purchased the tire from les scwabb a tire and car repair shop. they mounted the tire for me and were quite curious about it, in fact thought it was a great idea. i went with the 205 55 16 high speed rated, with no clearance problems or modification on my 03 1800c. in fact im certain i could of went with a 205 60 16 a slightly taller tire..

i had planned on purchasing a tire balancer and tools to mount the tire myselft if i couldnt find a garage to do it and still may do they that for convienance sake, the cost really isnt that much for the equipment.
hope this answered your questions
bear

[Retro Rocket]

I got over 16 K out of my stock Dunnies so when I replaced them I went with them again "Although I wanted Avon Venoms" but the dealer said it would take weeks to get them. I just can't see using a car tire on a bike. Doesn't it affect cornering? Being their profile is more square then rounded?

[Steve591968]

Thanks Bear. I am kind of shocked the bike shop wouldnt mount it but they would balance it. Whats the difference at that point? The only thing I am worried about is the rear fender on the R/S models.

Retro got 16K out of the Dunlops? WOW I had to change mine before 11K I am up to 17K now and they are starting to look worn already. Mayeb there is something special is the roads in Florida that justs eats tires up. That would be my luck. ;-)

[bear33]

hi retro, i cant explain why , but my flat tire corners just as good as the two sets of mc tires i had on my bike before going with the car tire, and i am very aggressive in the twisties. i can still scrape the pegs when i want to, and have full confidence in the tire. its hard to understand the concept, i just know from expierience it works
bear

[Steve591968]

hi retro, i cant explain why , but my flat tire corners just as good as the two sets of mc tires i had on my bike before going with the car tire, and i am very aggressive in the twisties. i can still scrape the pegs when i want to, and have full confidence in the tire. its hard to understand the concept, i just know from expierience it works
bear

Has anyone on the board done this on a R model. I am worried about clearances with my rear fender since it is quite different that a C fender

[Outlaw1800]

Has anyone on the board done this on a R model. I am worried about clearances with my rear fender since it is quite different that a C fender
Ive done a lot of research on this and am just waiting for my Metz to wear out before putting a Goodyear Assurance Tripple Tread 205-60-R16 on my Retro. I've spoken with a few that have done this with a Retro with no problems. In fact, it is recommended that C owners grind off the strut tabs inside the fenders before installing a car tire or a 200 series MC tire. So, I would sermize there is more of a clearance issue on a C than a Retro. JMHO.

Testing by car tire owners show the contact patch on a car tire in a curve is, in fact, larger than an MC tire. More than twice the size, probably due to flex in the sidewall. Anyway, gonna do it soon. I had to change the rear tire out this spring because of a flat. I was at bike week and didn't have the option to do the car tire thing then and there. Soon though.

Seams to me, in all the research I'v done, the neigh sayers are people who have not tried one yet. Like people who think you are crazy for riding a motorcycle at all. Take their comments for what they are worth. It's useless to argue from a position of ignorance. Ask the next one who says you will crash and burn if he actually knows someone who has. That'll usually end their soapbox.

[Outlaw1800]

Here is a thread from the VTXOA about opinions on car tires. 'bout covers it all.
http://www.vtxoa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=103585&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Oh, and I'm running 6 degree trees too!
http://www.virginiaxriders.com/photopost/data/500/VTX06.jpg

[Outlaw1800]

We, VTXtreme and I developed a 2" internal fork extension too. Glen is selling them for about $30 a set. It's a 1"d x 2" aluminum slug that has a bolt out one end and a bolt hole in the other. It screws into the fork cap then down on the shock post. It just pushes the whole shock/spring setup 2" down the fork tube. Works great and avoids having to use the 20" tire or fork extenders.
He doesn't have them posted on his site yet but, you can call him if you are interested. I know he made a run of them a while ago.
http://www.vtx-treme.com

[Outlaw1800]

Sorry for the brain fart Glen. it's been a long day.
Small world this X thing.....
I think I hijacked this thread:nono: :rolleyes:

[bear33]

Ive done a lot of research on this and am just waiting for my Metz to wear out before putting a Goodyear Assurance Tripple Tread 205-60-R16 on my Retro. I've spoken with a few that have done this with a Retro with no problems. In fact, it is recommended that C owners grind off the strut tabs inside the fenders before installing a car tire or a 200 series MC tire. So, I would sermize there is more of a clearance issue on a C than a Retro. JMHO.

Testing by car tire owners show the contact patch on a car tire in a curve is, in fact, larger than an MC tire. More than twice the size, probably due to flex in the sidewall. Anyway, gonna do it soon. I had to change the rear tire out this spring because of a flat. I was at bike week and didn't have the option to do the car tire thing then and there. Soon though.

Seams to me, in all the research I'v done, the neigh sayers are people who have not tried one yet. Like people who think you are crazy for riding a motorcycle at all. Take their comments for what they are worth. It's useless to argue from a position of ignorance. Ask the next one who says you will crash and burn if he actually knows someone who has. That'll usually end their soapbox.

your absulutley right outlaw, i was in laughlin nv in april, a guy tried to tell me the car tire i was running would only work in a straight line. i informed him i had just finished riding 1100 miles from washington state and it was anything but a straight line, i even offered him the chance to pick a road and try to keep up with me in the twisties, (funny he wouldnt take me up on it) put up or shut up i always say.
bear

[Outlaw1800]

Well.. pulled the trigger on this and put a Goodyear Assurance Tripple Tread on today. Did a quick (and I mean quick) 35 mile run just to test the waters. Things are different for sure. It'll take some getting used to. Had some noticable wandering over 90 mph. I didn't like that at all. I've heard that may be a tire pressure problem. I was running about 40 psi. I'll jack it up to 45-48 and see how things go. Could have to do with the 6* trees I have on there too. *********, have you had any feedback about wondering with Glen's trees. I'm running with the 2" internal extensions and 11 1/2" shocks. Have about 3.5"-3.7" of trail. That should be enough to keep it from wandering on the front end??? Opinions appreciated. Jury is still out on the car tire until I have a chance to put some more serious milage on it.

[Outlaw1800]

I put another 5 psi in the tires and the high speed wandering seams to have gone away, at least up to 100 mph. I'm running 11 1/2" 412's right now and am working a deal with another rider to exchange my 12" 440's for his 11" 440's. That should help further. Should push the trail number closer to 4".

[Outlaw1800]

Here's a pic of the tire. Sorry for the dust. I live on a gravel road.
Click on the thumbnail for a larger image.

[Outlaw1800]

Ran it all day today with 45 psi. Half the day alone, half the day 2 up. To be perfectly honest, I still have some issues with the way it handles. Most all back roads and twisties. Felt like I was fighting with it all day. Did hit a couple of short stretches of highway and it was fine. Really smoothe 2-up. But, highway driving is not the kind of riding I like. Alone, twisties, fast it felt good. Alone, twisties, slow, it's more of a struggle than I feel is comfortable. 2-up twisties fast is a real workout. Really had to lay into the bars to make it through some of the turns. Twisties slow, not to bad but really tracks on road irregularities. I have 2 miles of gravel road between the house and asphalt. That tire really wants to go wherever it wants to go in gravel. Quite a challange. A little un-nerving 2-up on gravel. Not getting any warm fuzzies about this yet. Put over 250 miles in today. Arms are sore from the fight.
BTW: rode 100 miles in a group of 20 and nobody even noticed the tire.

[Outlaw1800]

I'll be giving the tire a couple thousand miles before I make any final decission. It may be just a learning curve and getting used to the different feel of the ride. All that I've talked to face to face that have a car tire on their bike, love them and wouldn't change back. Like I said, no real warm fuzzies for me yet but it may just take a little more getting used to.

All things considered, it's a cheap mod to experiment around with compared to most everything else I've done to my X. I've got boxes of parts that I've not chosen to stick with that cost way more than this tire. By the looks of your ride, I would suspect you have a box or two of parts lying around as well.

Still tweaking things around with the front trees too. I did a bunch of stuff this winter that affect the handling charactoristics of the bike. Some of the issues I have with this may be a result of the combined changes I've made. That's why I will give the tire it's due while I tune everything in.

Honda has put out a damn near perfectly engineered cruiser with the VTX. Changes like I've made will tend to compromise one aspect or another. I'm willing to accept some compromises for the "cool" factor but, I try to be sure that what I'm doing is generally reversable because the bottom line is, I like to ride and really enjoy my X. When "cool" starts cutting into fun and ease of handling, "cool" goes into the box.

[Outlaw1800]

Hmmm... Can't seam to edit my lastpost here so, I'll add this as a new post:

From what I'm seeing there are two factors that are kind of working against me here. I was talking with another dark side member and he mentioned something that made sense. When you go into a turn on a car tire, it does jack it up on one side of the itre a bit so the actual track is off center of the tire and the bike moves itself to align that tracking with the front tire. That makes sense to me and explains part of the countersteering issue. The raked trees do the same sort of thing to the front end. Example: when you turn the bars to the right, it kicks the front wheel out slightly to the left. Kind of leans the front forks to the side oposite of your turn. So, when in a right turn, the center of the rear wheel is moving to the right while the center of the front wheel is moving to the left. that exaurates the "shuffle" the bike does to bring things back in line. So when going through a set of tight S turns, the bike tends to move/shuffle in a more exadurated way. I'm zeroing in on that probably being the basis for the handling issues I'm having.

[Twistedrcpilot]

Just an idea, but has anyone had a problem with rear bearings being that a car tire has more of a mind of its own?

[bear33]

sorry to hear your having some issues with the tire, good to hear your trying to work them out rather than just give up on it, i have just about 7000 thousand on my 1800 c , using the falcon 205/55/16. couldnt be happier with it. as with you, it felt different at first but after a few miles, i didnt notice a thing. of course my bike is a different model then yours and i dont have the mods you do. originally my main reason for switching over was for tire wear, fortunatley for me it didnt effect my handling. and the tire looks great.
what ever you decide , at least your gave it a shot, and as you said it was a inexpesive expeiriment

[Retro Rich]

My guess would be the tread design and also the difference on the corners of the tire's design (vs. a true motorcycle tire). Definitely won't roll as easy in a turn/twisty, and my other instinct is to say that there is such a difference in design between a car and motorcycle with shape/etc. The car tire is going to be designed to handle more weight across the distribution of the tire/contact patch, so it's probably tougher to get it to "flex" more or less when leaning it into turns/etc. Most likely a stiffer compound as well (which obviously gives you better mileage from the tire, but worse handling on something as light as a bike is compared to a cage). Sorry to hear it's not working out at this point. Seems it's working for some out there; tire brand and tread design could very well make a difference.

[Outlaw1800]

Hmmm.... Figure a bike with rider is about 1000 lb. About 600 of that on the rear wheel times 4, for a car, puts car weight at about 2400 lb. That's about right for a sporty little car that might have these tires on it.

[Retro Rich]

Right, I'm following you on the part regarding actual weight/load. But, how that "load" is actually distributed onto the tire itself (the gross area/width) of the car distributing the weight vs. it being more, in essence, "concentrated" and a slimmer area of load)--couldn't/isn't that different than a car? I'm not a physicist, but just seems like common sense in the differences. The corner design and pitch on the car tire vs. the MC tire are quite different, which to me seems like what is causing the feeling of "fighting" it in the turns, especially moreso with riding 2-up (and more weight on the rear than solo).

Just some ideas....

[Outlaw1800]

Good article! I would assume no one here really took this move to the dark side without thoroughly checking out all the write ups and face-to-face reviews they could, and still with some apprehension. Personally, I've been researching it for a couple three years. You have to admit, it's a pretty severe move past basic logic when it comes to what the tires are made for. I fully understand how a radial car tire works/flexes on the sidewalls keeping a larger contact patch. The radial MC tire actually works more like the old bias ply car tires did necessitating the "sticker" rubber to compensate for the smaller contact patch in corners. The bias ply tires have very little sidewall flex compared to a radial.

I learned this back when I was building and rat racing old Triumph TR3's and MGA's. Both had straight rear axles and narrow wheel bases. They were built to have narrow bias ply tires and designed to slide the rear end around fast corners. We put a set of radials on an MGA and ran it through some high speed tight corners with no slide. We flipped that one. Luck for us it did exactly one revolution and landed on the wheels. It did take the rag top off but, not our heads (no roll bar). Needless to say, the radials came off and were never entertained again.

I see the radial car tire's side wall flex as a positive thing when it comes to the available compounds used to make a longer wearing tire. The contact patch is larger in the corner allowing for more tread design possibilities as well as a generally harder, longer wearing rubber compound to be used. The down side I looked at was that you would tend to feel that sidewall flex and that would take some getting used to.

My thinking at this time is this: I put a lot of $$ into the front end and that is not entirely dialed in quite yet. I have a set of 11" shocks in transit and I'm hoping they will take care of the high speed wobble I was talking about. I will probably take off the car tire to make sure that this problem is front end related. Once I get this problem resolved, either by tweaking the suspension or removing the 6* trees entirely, I will look at the car tire again. It may well be that either mod will work just fine but, I am thinking now, that both mods together may not be compatible. For now, I'll keep it under 80mph until I get the shorter shocks and see if I get used to the "different" ride characteristics of the car tire.

[Retro Rich]

No question you guys have researched it :) ; hope you find a solution that works out. And, certainly doesn't involve you losing the car tire option due to the front end rake. Bike looks way to good the way it is now.

Best of luck and safe riding!

[dirtdobber]

http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/4458IMG_1049_Small_.jpgI went to a vtx-mostly,90%- picnic this past weekend and there were 2 vtx's with car tires. One has the car tire on his 1800c and his valk. interstate. When we were leaving, we were going to a pig roast 70 miles down the road, I was behind him. I must say I was impressed, his 1800c seemed to handle normaly. It is each persons decision.:patriot:

[R717]

So how did you guys have these balanced?

[Outlaw1800]

Just an update. I pulled the car tire off and put a new set of Metz 880's on today. I also checked the 6* trees and they are in proper working condition. I took the X out for a high speed test ride and the snakey wobble thing is still there. Not as pronounced but, definitely still there over 80 mph. The good thing, from the dark side perspective, is, it wasn't the car tire causing the problem. The down side is, I haven't isolated the problem yet. I have a pretty strong feeling it may well be the front wheel bearings. I checked them when I pit the wheel back on and they didn't feel right.
*********, you talked about the front bearings. How much of a pain in the ass is it to replace them? The manual says you need a special tool to get them out and another to get them back in?!?
Also, you mentioned a better brand. Where can I get a set?? How fast? Patience is not one of my virtues.:icon_yike

[Scooter_mac]

Car Tire . well I did it , I put a 205 / 65 / 25 on my 02 retro ,
have read lots on doing it , and figured the only way I would know for sure was try it
So first thousand miles , it is different , you can feel the side walls flex , started with 35 lbs pressure , then went to 50 lbs , still feel the flex just not as much , definetly holds the road as good or better than a regular tire ,
the best way I can discribe the feel is ,its like a low or going flat motorcycle tire , on the straight its great , I am going to give it an honnest try until the end of the ride season here in saskatchewan Canada

[Ozzy]

I changed over to a car tire 4500 mile ago and haven't looked back since, I am running a Riken Raptor 205/55 ZR16 on a retro with an undertaker fender from Xtreme Revolution. It is a little shorter than a stock mc tire and changed my speedo by aprox 3mph. If you go to a 206/60 sieres tire it will be really close to the same hiegth as the stocker. I had to trim 1/8th inch off the inside of the fender rails as it just barely rubbed.

I have ridden in the twisties of SOCAL as thats where I live as well as freeway and rain. I really like the way that this tire handles and will stick with a Riken the next go-around.

[VTX Candy Red]

http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/178DSC00021-med.JPGhttp://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/503/178DSC00015-med.JPG

[Buda_jim]

So are you guys using your stock wheels, or are you having to go custom ... and are you using a car tire only to replace the rear wheel? What rear car tire size would maximize the width on my '05 1800 Retro ... without having to modify suspension or fender? I haven't checked on my VTX, but every other bike I've had used front wheel rotations for speedometer readings, so unless the front tire is also changed out I would think there should be no impact on speedometer accuracy ... right? I'd like to give it a try.

R717 asked how you guys are balancing the tire, but I didn't see a reply.

Buda_Jim

[VTX Candy Red]

The shop I took it to mounted and balanced it. I used the stock rim and only the rear wheel. I have an 02 retro and I put a 205-65-16 on with no clearance problems!

[Buda_jim]

You answered a second question also ... that a M/C shop did the mount and balance. I have a pretty good idea that if I brought a car tire into the dealership where I bought the bike (or any Honda dealer for that matter) they would look at me like I have a third arm growing out of my forehead and tell me to hit the bricks. But there are a ton of independent M/C shops around my area where I might get it done. Is that what you did?

Thanks for the info Candy Red.

Buda_Jim

[FL_VTX_GA]

VTX1800 uses engine RPM to calculate speed. Changing the rear diameter will cause a speedo error. Actually, going to a larger diameter will help "correct" the speedo error built in.