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Front brakes won't bleed/operate

4K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  drparkwood 
#1 ·
I removed the caliper and painted it...put it back on the bike and went to bleed the system but it wont pump up. I am getting plenty of fluid out of the bleeder (refilled reservoir 3 times) and the pistons are moving inward just not far enough to grab the rotor. The only thing I can think of maybe some overspray got into the piston seals and there is air leaking by. I might try disassembling the caliper...
Anyone have any ideas??? Thanks!!!!
 
#6 ·
ok i give up...

Well I tried everything recommended here and still no luck. I disassembled the caliper completely and blew down all the port/passages. Took the hose off and blew it down along with the banjo fittings. I emptied the master cylinder and blew it down too. I did not take the master cylinder piston out though. Reassembled everything and still no luck. I am completely dumbfounded.:hmm2: I going to guess one (or more) of the piston seals is bad so I will order new ones and do a rebuild on the caliper and master cylinder. If that don't work I guess it off to honda for them too look at it...:mad:
 
#8 ·
Absolutely... Probably oughta order them too.
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Well parts ordered...
Banjo gaskets
Master cyl piston rebuild kit
Caliper piston seals
Man I hope this works. Just gotta wait for the parts now.
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#9 ·
hey bro, never done this myself but i was told it works. get a shop vac, open reservoir, open the bleeder port, suck the fluid out until you can feel strong resistance at the bleeder. then blow through it to make sure it is clear. pour fluid in until it starts to drip. plug it back up with the bleeder screw in. pour in your fluid and then try bleeding them. overspray could gum up the works but against that much pressure, it would take a lot. peace. cj
 
#11 ·
stanggt -

Proper preparation ahead of time is the best method of avoiding situations such as you are now experiencing.

However, let's take this one area at a time.

You didn't state whether you allowed all of the fluid to drip out of your front brake line and master cylinder, so I'll take it that is what happened.

Let's start from the top.

Take the front brake hose off of the master cylinder and fill and bleed the front master cylinder by itself until you have all of the air removed from the master cylinder bore.

Next install the front brake line and allow the fluid to gravity bleed all the way down to the end. Have a couple of the copper sealing washers, and a 5/16"-18 x 1" bolt, 5/16-18 nut and two ¼" washers handy to "plug the leak" at the open end (caliper end) of the front brake hose. Now bleed the air out of the upper banjo fitting. When the air is bled out of the fitting, use a pair of needlenose visegrips with the jaws wrapped in black tape to pinch off the lower end of the front brake hose just above the lower banjo fitting. Check and refill the master cylinder as necessary.

You may have already "filled" the front caliper with fluid during your previous attempts to bleed the system, but you can use your MityVac to fill the front caliper if you think it thru.

Once the front caliper has been filled with brake fluid, reconnect the lower end of the front brake hose to the caliper leaving the banjo (fitting) bolt just slightly loose. Apply a slight bit of pressure to the front brake lever and then release the needlenose vise grips that you installed earlier. Holding the front brake lever nearly all of the way down (but not completely against the stop), snug the banjo (fitting) bolt at the caliper and release the front brake lever. Check and refill the front master cylinder as necessary.

Let the brakes sit for a minute or two.

Now, pump the front brake lever slowly about 3-4 times. Crack the TOP banjo bolt and release any trapped air. Repeat until no more air is present at the fitting. Check and refill the front master cylinder as necessary.

If the front brake lever still feels a bit spongy, then proceed to bleed the brakes at the caliper bleeder screw in the same manner - 3-4 SLOW pumps of the lever, HOLD and crack the bleeder screw. Repeat until no more air escapes from the bleeder screw. Check and refill the front master cylinder as necessary.

God forbid that you should open the rear brake system and need to bleed the rear brakes. It's a stupid arrangement from the factory (Honda) to run the rear brake line nearly 2 feet above the level of the rear caliper and to have the rear master cylinder lower in the system that the caliper sits.
 
#13 ·
Gearhead,
Thanks for the detailed write up. I will do as written. I actually forgot to bleed the master cyl piston and your write refreshed my memory. Unfortunately i have emt class today and will not get to the bike until thursday.
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#15 ·
if you have someone to help it makes it a little easier. i have been having dampener rig issues on my forks. what it is is a plastic ring that cuts down on vibration noise. what is bad is it will sock top and slide down the tube and you have to jack it up and put it back. not a bad job just a pain in the butt
 
#18 ·
problem solved.now new problem

you guys are not gonna believe this... the problem this whole time was A PIECE OF TEFLON TAPE clogging the bleeder hole!!!:banghead: There was some old teflon tape on the threads and now its gone:) The new problem is the brakes pulse pretty bad when applied. I think when they powder coated the rotors they blasted/smoothed out the disk pad surface and since my pads had 6K+ on them they were worn in to the rotor before they got blasted. Now I assume they are an uneven match to the rotor (fighting the smooth surface). I guess I will get new pads...front and rear. Thanks everybody for your help. I will update after new pads installed.
 
#20 ·
hey man, thats one fine looking ride. for some reason my screen is got to much blue but that looks silverish and is one nice bike. where did you get the single seat? i have a two part seat with backrest but i think the front seat will be loose without the back? i have had my 1300r for right about a year. never really messed with it never really had a cause, ya know.
cj

i love the guy beating his head on the wall. lol. seriously, man its always something little bity that screws up the works ya know. glad ya found the problem. cj
 
#21 ·
teflon tape in the bleeder hole was going to be my guess but since you already figured it out...:bleh: Glad to hear that problem is solved, pads shouldn't be too big of a problem.
 
#22 ·
Put new pads on and its still pulsating. I guess I will re-bleed another pint of fluid and ride it for while to see if it goes away. I hope the rotors are not warped...they are not cheap.
 
#24 ·
Put new pads on and its still pulsating. I guess I will re-bleed another pint of fluid and ride it for while to see if it goes away. I hope the rotors are not warped...they are not cheap.
stanggt -

Glad you got your first problem solved in a less costly manner. That's why most mechanics don't use Teflon tape on brake systems.

Since you had removed your rotors to have the wheels coated, it's quite possible that the rotors didn't seat exactly squared & flush back onto the wheel hub.

Suggestion is to remove the wheels, remove the rotor from the wheel and ensure that all surfaces where the rotor and wheel contact are absolutely cleaned of any coating or paint material. put a tiny bit of never-seize on the wheel hub area where the rotor seats. Reinstall the rotor and torque the rotor to specs in a double-star pattern. It may be the result of a tiny bit of "substance" trapped between the rotor and the wheel hub mounting surface.

It'll end up like the old fable of the "Princess and the pea" and cause front brake pulsating when applying the brakes. It would be very rare indeed to have a warped front rotor on the VTX, considering how beefy they actually are compared to other bikes.

Let us know.
 
#23 ·
try this. it sounds like air in the system. fill it up. pump the brakes with the reservoir open. it my go down a bit or even rise. but if there is a bubble the size of a dime it can make function intermittant or pulsate. the fluid is squeeking by but not fast enough to apply proper pressure. you can also try to suction it backwards through the fill reservoir. i hope it all works out good for ya. cj
 
#25 ·
Ok, put new rotor on and all is fixed...no pulsating, no clicking sound. I am glad to have front brakes again:choppersm I guess the powder coating oven warped the old rotor somehow. I will paint the new one, that is for sure.
 
#26 ·
Did you bed the new pads?

Often uneven pad transfer will be mistaken for warped rotors if the new pads are not properly bedded in then the pad material has not been evenly transferred and a pulsating pedal or lever will result. Bedding new pads is very important yet I never hear anyone saying I just bedded my new pads in. Why is that?? Doesn't anybody know about bedding pads in????

I highly doubt that the heat generated from powder coating warped your brake rotors. The temps are just not that high in powder coating

The old rotors may need to be polished you take a 3m grinding disc and lightly grind the two surfaces of the disc until you are just generating some light sparks all the way around the purpose is to remove any pad material that is left on the rotors unevenly. You are not looking to remove any metal off of the rotors just lightly grind the friction surfaces to remove ant old pad material. Then when you put them on you bed in your new pads and allow that process to replace new pad material evenly on the brake rotors
 
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