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I have a Paraordnance P-12 .45 ACP. This is a wide grip double stack 1911 clone, officer's size. I have had it since 1996, when my bride got it for me as a 10th anniversary gift. I am ready to get past the stock configuration, and found Fusion Firearms has drop in kits for such things as trigger group kits, with hammers and springs. One is drop in with an aluminum trigger non-adjustable, the other carbon fiber, which is adjustable, but requires fitting. I also want to get a beavertail grip safety, but that requires filing down the rear part of the frame to fit...if it will work with my frame.

I know many here are qualified to answer this, but being a mere user, I am unsure whether I am qualified to attempt this. I am OK with files, and Dremels, and such, but want to know whether any armourers here think me a fool, or is this in the regular bench tinkerer's level to do?
 

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You can try Brownells for a video on working on 1911s. This is the way to go if you have never disassembled a 1911 before. The drop-in triggers will never be as good as a fitted one because they are made to work in most guns so the tolerances are looser. I rework the replaceable parts instead of the frame or slides plus this lets you refit other parts later on if you want something different.
 

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WTF, Over!
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Discussion Starter #3
Been watching a lot of the Videos on YouTube, some Independent, some Brownells. They make it look so easy, I just wonder if I am being naive.

So, do you think the adding of match grade parts to my P-12 should be in my skill level?
 

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i don't know about the one you have...I have an LDA and would not attempt it. Have a qualified gunsmith do it...You'll be happier in the long run, and you will sleep better knowing that it was done right! Also...if something were to happen...there is nothing better a liberal-gun-hating lawyer likes than a kitchen table gunsmith!!! just my .02
 

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Well, I don't know what your skill level is but the parts are relatively cheap compared to the frame and slide so do your modding on the parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, I don't know what your skill level is but the parts are relatively cheap compared to the frame and slide so do your modding on the parts.
I think the Beavertail Safety is the only one requiring any kind of frame work. There are jigs for that, that keep you from screwing it up.
 

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You can try Brownells for a video on working on 1911s. This is the way to go if you have never disassembled a 1911 before. The drop-in triggers will never be as good as a fitted one because they are made to work in most guns so the tolerances are looser. I rework the replaceable parts instead of the frame or slides plus this lets you refit other parts later on if you want something different.
Contrary to what the aftermarket part manufacturer states - there is very little on a 1911 that is drop in. And as explained above: what is drop in will not be as good as a fitted job. Stay away from modding the frame or slide. The fitting process is slow tedious job that requires checking the fit often as you proceed. Remember you can not replace material if you have taken too much off, so you must start over with new parts if that happens.
 

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I have a Paraordnance P-12 .45 ACP. This is a wide grip double stack 1911 clone, officer's size. I have had it since 1996, when my bride got it for me as a 10th anniversary gift. I am ready to get past the stock configuration, and found Fusion Firearms has drop in kits for such things as trigger group kits, with hammers and springs. One is drop in with an aluminum trigger non-adjustable, the other carbon fiber, which is adjustable, but requires fitting. I also want to get a beavertail grip safety, but that requires filing down the rear part of the frame to fit...if it will work with my frame.

I know many here are qualified to answer this, but being a mere user, I am unsure whether I am qualified to attempt this. I am OK with files, and Dremels, and such, but want to know whether any armourers here think me a fool, or is this in the regular bench tinkerer's level to do?
I would go the armourers route personally. I would suggest staying away from anything carbon fiber. I am a Glock Armourers so I only speak Glock. But I got a few friends that speak 1911. Depending on the use of the handgun I would suggest staying all metal. But that is just my opinion. Going to be a safe queen with limited use at the range? Then carbon all you want, but if you are planning it saving your life, metal only.

my $.02, I am sure others will differ.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Contrary to what the aftermarket part manufacturer states - there is very little on a 1911 that is drop in. And as explained above: what is drop in will not be as good as a fitted job. Stay away from modding the frame or slide. The fitting process is slow tedious job that requires checking the fit often as you proceed. Remember you can not replace material if you have taken too much off, so you must start over with new parts if that happens.
There are only a few "drop-in" beaver tail safeties...all others require removing the farthest back tip of the frame. That is the only part I think requires modifying the frame at all. As far as the slide, the only thing I am going to change there is maybe the firing pin & spring, as I now already have a 2-piece guide rod with dual action springs.
 

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My Experience

"Drop-In" parts rarely drop-in correctly and if they do, they don't improve things much. It's usually cheaper to pay an experienced, skilled gunsmith than to waste your time and effort attempting the custom work yourself. Like many of the other guys have said, take it to a gunsmith (with references for 1911 work). He has been down the trail many times before and can do the job right the first time using the right tools and jigs. That way you won't spend you time looking for launched springs, lost screws, etc. In the end, you'll be happy with the results.
 

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after shooting competition for years I would recommend dropping the gun off with a well reputed gun smith, its alot cheaper than buying a new slide if you screw it up! trust me I have been there. what you would do with a file in hours they can do in 15 minutes with an end mill.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
A very good friend of mine that not only will give you advice but would be very able to do the work. A Highly recommended perfectionist.

Located about 25 miles north of Pittsburgh PA.

Dennis Sayti
[email protected]
724-816-7070

www.sayticustomrifles.com

Hmm, that is a about a 5 hour ride from me. I wonder how long the work would take? I could always ride up this coming Spring...
 

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It certainly would not hurt to pick up the phone and call to dicuss your options with Denny. He is one of the most trustworthy people that I know. Point being, you may be able to arrange shipping the gun back and forth. It would be worth the call. Tell him that his neighbor Bill referred you to him. He is an FFL as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It certainly would not hurt to pick up the phone and call to dicuss your options with Denny. He is one of the most trustworthy people that I know. Point being, you may be able to arrange shipping the gun back and forth. It would be worth the call. Tell him that his neighbor Bill referred you to him. He is an FFL as well.
Most gunsmiths are FFL holders, as it makes their job way easier. I just wonder if, being in the People's Republic of MD, if I have to do it thru another FFL here, as well? Stupid Gun Control Laws in MD...
 

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Most gunsmiths are FFL holders, as it makes their job way easier. I just wonder if, being in the People's Republic of MD, if I have to do it thru another FFL here, as well? Stupid Gun Control Laws in MD...
ALL gunsmiths (non-licensed smiths are not gunsmiths but machinists) are licensed FFL according to the law. You can not ship a firearm to any unlicensed person and depending on the laws in your state and the other persons state you may not even be able to drop it off without breaking laws. So be careful. I would bet if you go to a range in your area you can find a guy that loves 1911s and has done his own work and most likely would love to give you a hand.

Three is a 1911 forum, http://forums.1911forum.com/ , and I am sure you can find all kinds of advice there and maybe someone in your area. This forum might even have some threads about just what you are doing and what parts are best for different frames.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks so much guys. I was wondering if I should attempt it myself, since I am pretty good with hand tools. But with all the input, and good advice, I am thinking now to let a pro do it...

Mike, I am probably going to have to check at the gun club I am a member of to get a local Smith, but I was trying to avoid that, as the one gunsmith I know there is not someone I would trust with my Red Ryder, much less my P-12. Don't need to cause any controversy...
 

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I suggest spending your $$ on this pistol:
http://nwatactical.com/spartan-p-1079.html
I am not familiar with this company, I just goggled it and posted the first company that had the STI for sale. However, STI I am familiar with and they are outstanding.
It will out shoot a lot of pistols, even custom ones and is cheaper than what I could build a complete basic custom one for. If it is for paper punching, then working on it yourself is very gratifying. If an accident ever happens or you use it in self defense and shoot someone else, even legally, lawyers may have a field day.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The company that makes the parts I am looking at is somehow affiliated with STI. The company is Fusion, and the guy who started it, was from Dan Wesson Arms. They have some very good kits, just like I am looking for, at reasonable prices.
 

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I checked them out. The kits are actually a little higher in price. I like the frames on the kits a little better. They have different types of types engraving of patterns for grips.
 
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