[sambroom]

NOTE: This issue was QUICKLY solved with the expert help of several totally awesome experts on this forum :mosh: Thanks a ton guys!
ANOTHER NOTE: If you need a starter solenoid (relay) or a starter motor, use the resources at the end of this thread to save big money

2003 1800. So here it is... For the last little bit, my starter has been turning over really slow. It would crank once, pause and then start pretty normal. So today, it wouldn't start. It turned over slowly a few times, and then refused to turn over again. I took the battery to autozone to have it checked, and it appeared to be good (no amperage test. only voltage). They also charged it all the way. after I put the battery back in and torqued the screws down with a wrench, there was no change. After researching, I learned that the solenoid was a likely culprit, and also that some folks had noticed an improvement by using a universal automotive solenoid, which is practically plug and play... I put in an automotive solenoid, and the problem stayed the same... except the beefier solenoid got stuck and the starter kept trying even with the key off. I had to disconnect the battery cable to stop the starter from slowly turning over... furthermore I could hear a funny sizzling sound for about 30 seconds after I disconnected the battery cable.

The bike has a PCIII, Honda Driving Lights, self-canceling signals and two 12 volt outlets

I have only had this bike for two weeks!

Anyone got some advice??

 

[Silver F]

a voltage test is USELESS.. and your complaint is common for a Bad battery..

and it is also common for the starter solenoid to WELD its contacts because of trying to start an engine with a Weak or Bad battery...

get a new Yuasa battery and a starter solenoid....

do a "SEARCH" here ... many and many posts with this issue...

also do not use a screwdriver on the battery bolts.. use a wrench. the VTX is known to loosen them...

 

[sambroom]

update: since the new solenoid made practically no difference, I hooked up the old one again. Though the headlight turned off like usual when I pressed the starter button, the starter didn't turn over at all. I'll go pick up a new battery, beat on the solenoid a bit to see if I can knock loose any contacts that may have stuck, try it again, and check back.

 

[Vinish]

Silver F is exactly right. Get an amperage or load test on that battery.

G'day,

Vinish

 

[Philscbx]

Anytime in doubt - jump it with car will prove the low output battery is the cause.

The sizzle was double amps trying to weld the relay - from low voltage.

Never force slow cranking - it only causes damage.

 

[sambroom]

Second update: Got a brand new battery, hit the solenoid a few times, but still nothing happens when I hit the starter button except the headlight turns off. Has anyone ever tried bypassing the solenoid to test the starter motor? I figure if I can just stick something metal between the posts on the solenoid, it will bypass it and the starter should engage. Is this safe? am I going to fry anything? I figure this test can give me a pretty good idea of where the problem is...

 

[Silver F]

side-stand DOWN, transmission in Neutral ... double check the transmission is in Neutral.....
doing this by-passes ALL safety systems... bike may jump away .. CARE is needed here.....

jump the 2 threaded poles on solenoid with screwdriver (old one)..

Did you charge the New battery??? they only come with a partial charge.

 

[sambroom]

Third update: Battery was fully charged and ready to boogie when I bought it. I did the bypass test: Threw plenty of sparks, but the starter motor didn't move at all. Am I looking at a bad starter motor?

I also read something earlier about too-tight valve adjustmets creating too much compression, making it difficult for the starter to turn the motor over all the way... Is this possible? I haven't checked the valves yet because the engine seems to run plent smooth, but I do hear a slight tick when the engine is warm...

 

[sambroom]

Fourth Update: (Thanks a ton for your help by the way) I tried putting my bike in gear and pushing it around a bit to see if the compression was too stiff, or if the motor was stuck at all, but it seemed smooth and normal. I tried the bypass test again and got nothing. Since it won't turn over anymore, even with a new strong battery, with the relay switch bypassed, do all fingers point at the starter motor? Or am I missing something?

 

[Zerk64]

Check the ground, make sure it is clean and tight to the chassis.

 

[Philscbx]

Check the crimped ends on all battery main cables to ground and to relay.

Is there any creeping corrosion into the crimp? on the ends of cables.
Any trace on ends - that look melted?

These starters are pretty tough - but no idea the previous torture -
so inspection bench check is maybe necessary.
Fired up off battery.

The manual will show how to service it.

 

[sambroom]

Are you talking about the common ground at the bottom of the bike? It was tight, but I pulled out the bolt and cleaned everything with gun cleaner and a toothbrush and torqued it down just to be sure. No Change. The flowchart in the service manual points to a bad starter motor. is there anything else I should check before I order a new starter motor? Also, has anyone heard of symptoms like these (slow starts) from a bad starter motor? my impression is that a starter motor goes bad all at once...

 

[Philscbx]

No starter goes at once -
the brushes wear down - causing a no contact stall -
to bearing / bushing fail rubbing armature into windings/magnets -there's always a pre-fail sound.

Pull it's main through bolts off and look inside.
Damage is always obvious.

So all cables look perfect? That's 6 crimped ends in total getting to the starter.

Before any further - jump the car - to verify.
We've seen this before - not using a real battery charger of 20-40amp w/2amp option.

With digital read out of voltage & capacity.

Sample view coming = #21

 

[Philscbx]

I tried the bypass test again and got nothing.

Never make contact for more than one second -
It either spins the engine over - or Quit.


Battery doesn't have enough.

Cables bad.

Starter.

Jump/car - too verify.

That Fry sound earlier - just where precisely did it come from?
Could have been inside the battery from dead short attack / Very High Amp load.

If that's the case - your getting too close to dangerous injury to your face.
The slightest outgas / mix & spark - You don't want to be 50ft near it.

I've been in the ground zero explosion before - I was afraid to open my eyes -
or if the building was coming down.

 

[sambroom]

Philscbx, I rechecked all of the cable ends. They look good to me. I checked continuity on all cables between the post on the starter and the battery. No melting or corrosion. I checked the ground wires and found one abnormality (see the attached photo of the ground wire that is coming apart). The sizzling sound definitely came from near the battery, but I have since replaced that battery with a new one. No jump from a car yet, that will have to happen tomorrow. I read through the starter motor inspection and plan pull it to look at tomorrow.

The service manual mentioned a 30 amp fuse. Where is that located?

 

[Philscbx]

That looks like an Accessory power relay - 30 - 50 amp - like for glow plugs -
to air compressor.

That's a secondary circuit - not related to starter.
Granted those connections probably need to be redone.
The red wire shows sign of either earlier cover damage before applied there -
or other issue.

Lets see top of battery details.

And the starter relay details on left side.

All the battery cables are the heavier gauge - maybe #6Ga.
Average Pencil dia copper.
All the way to starter. - regardless what's used between for relay.

The wires on relay shown looks a mix of 18ga 14Ga & 10Ga.

Looking again - are you saying the relay in view is to Starter?
That's not happening.
Starter relay has to be rated 200-300amp min.

**** Hold off on Jumping from Car - Need to verify what's going on first.
Maybe in the middle of Fubar.

 

[Philscbx]

Someone will jump on tomorrow -
I'll be out till noon.

 

[sambroom]

thanks. I'll pull the starter and inspect it per the service manual. I won't make another attempt to start it until I have posted pics of the cable ends, etc.

 

[SPARKY5151]

Hi Sam, If you are still watching this thread respond back to me and I will go over some things to look at including a picture of the starter relay with fuse position.

 

[sambroom]

yeah I'm still on