Honda VTX 1300 / VTX 1800 Motorcycles Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Molon Labe!
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay everyone. I too have recognized the damage that the ethanol garbage does to our bikes. I think I have stumbled on salvation!
I pass this Farm Stores every day on the way home from work and in the last few weeks there has been a banner out front claiming ethanol free gas. Well, tonight I stopped in and spoke with the owner. He confirmed that his gas is indeed ethanol free. He directed me to the website for the organization he is.a part of and I post it here. I'm gonna fill up at his place tomorrow and i'll let you know.

pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=FL

Scaput:stirpot:u
 

·
WTF, Over!
Joined
·
8,353 Posts
All the MD ones are Eastern Shore, and I am on the Western side.
 

·
ext440
Joined
·
123 Posts
Ethanol – The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

Ethanol – The Good, The Bad & The Ugly
Why is Ethanol being added to gasoline?
Henry Ford originally designed the venerable Model T to run on Ethanol with gasoline as a secondary fuel.
Amendments to the Clean Air Act of 1990 required that gasoline be oxygenated (have oxygen added) in certain high pollution areas.
Originally, MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) was used to meet the federal mandate. When that was found to contaminate ground water, Ethanol became the substitute. E10 fuel contains 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline. Oxygenated blends produce less
pollution but provide lower fuel mileage.
Today, over 45% of gasoline in the U.S. contains Ethanol and it is expected to grow about 7% a year.

What Problems are caused by Ethanol in Gasoline?
Gasoline is designed for primary use in cars and trucks. Other than lower fuel economy, there are relatively few problems in these vehicles.
The major problems are found in boats, snowmobiles, ATVs, motorcycles and outdoor power equipment. Most of these are subject to periodic use and/or seasonal storage. Gasoline deteriorates after 30-60 days which causes engine deposits and gumming of carburetors and fuel injectors.
Upon storage manufacturers generally recommend draining all gasoline, or treating it with a fuel stabilizer. As it is nearly impossible to completely empty a built-in tank safely, the best solution is to top off the tank to 95% full (to allow for expansion). This is recommended by the National Fire Protection Association to minimize explosive vapors. The fuel should than be treated with a stabilizer.
What other Problems are caused by Ethanol?
1) The presence of Ethanol can cause deterioration of several fuel system
components including hoses, squeeze bulbs, plastic fuel tanks, fuel pump and head gaskets. Such deterioration in turn can result in plugged fuel filters and pumps. This can occur in pre-1991 engines. Additives will not prevent this problem. Failed components will have to be replaced with Ethanol compatible components.
2) Fuel filters can get plugged by debris caused by Ethanol cleaning dirty fuel systems. A fuel treatment containing cleaning agents will allow the dirt particles to pass through the system.
3) Carburetors and fuel injectors can be clogged by a gel like substance created when a gasoline/BTBE blend in a storage tank is not completely cleaned out prior to being filled with a gasoline/ethanol blend. Additives will not prevent these problems.
4) A major problem is Phase Separation created when water gets into the fuel causing the water/ethanol mixture to sink to the bottom of the tank where the fuel pick-up is. Engines cannot run on an alcohol/water blend and will seize. Two cycle engines particularly have this problem since the proper lubricant will not be present in the gasoline. While a properly formulated additive may prevent the separation by removing excess water, it will not cure the problem once it exists. The best defense is to keep the tank as full as possible. Moisture condenses in the empty space in the tank, so reducing the amount of air in the tank reduces the amount of water that can enter.
5) Ethanol can etch aluminum, magnesium and die-case zinc causing fuel injectors to plug and/or damage pistons and fuel pumps. A properly formulated fuel stabilizer will prevent corrosion.
How is Marine STA-BIL different than original STA-BIL?
Original STA-BIL is formulated to keep fuel fresh for 12 months or more, preventing gum and varnish deposits and eliminating the need to drain fuel before storage. Recently STA-BIL has been upgraded and is now recommended to be used at every fillup to protect against corrosion caused by today’s Ethanol-blended gasoline.
MARINE Formula STA-BIL contains double the corrosion inhibitor than in original STABIL, which is important in “open” fuel systems, such as those found in boats, lawnmowers and snowmobiles. Open fuel systems vent to the air and continually attract water from the air. This became especially true since the introduction of ethanol blended gasoline that attracts water. When water is introduced into your fuel system it can cause corrosion damage to fuel tanks, fuel lines, carburetors and injectors.
MARINE Formula STA-BIL will protect your engine against these damaging problems. MARINE Formula STA-BIL also contains four times the fuel system cleaner than original STA-BIL; it’s a complete fuel system cleaner. Ethanol blended gasoline acts as a solvent on accumulated deposits in marine fuel tanks, fuel lines, carburetors and injectors. This solvent loosens deposits that can cause engine performance problems, such as hard starting, rough running, over heating and stalling. MARINE Formula STABIL cleans up these power-robbing deposits.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2/8218/Motorcycle-Article/More-Ethanol-in-Gas-May-Damage-Motorcycles.aspx
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,485 Posts
Scaput, make sure that it's all gas that is ethanol free. Here, the gas stations that boast ethanol free only offer pure gas as premium gas. The lower grades contain ethanol.

My own experience with pure gas is that I get better gas mileage and the engine seems to run better with pure gas. I ride often enough for it not to be a problem. But my grandparents van has had to go into the shop due to not starting and running right due to ethanol. The mechanic cleaned the fuel filters, etc. and told them to get pure gas. They haven't had a problem since.
 

·
Favorite Bike - V65 Magna
Joined
·
1,437 Posts
As usual, the posters from the 'corn' belt are having no problems with ethanol. I suppose I wouldn't either if my income depended on it.

Geezer
 

·
The guitar, not the fish!
Joined
·
33,457 Posts
As usual, the posters from the 'corn' belt are having no problems with ethanol. I suppose I wouldn't either if my income depended on it.

Geezer
My income doesn't have anything to do with corn....And I've been running 10% blend in every vehicle I've owned in the past 20+ years with NO fuel related problems whatsoever...

The "Damage" question still hasn't been answered though.....
 

·
Molon Labe!
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
See EXT440s post for a list of some of the issues. Take from this thread what you will Bass. Personally, I would love to not have to use sea foam so often. 2 - 3 tanks without it and my mileage and performance suffer greatly.
Scaput
 

·
The guitar, not the fish!
Joined
·
33,457 Posts
Yeah I remember when the ethanol was eating fuel lines and carb parts, but that was a long time ago, and those issues are a non-issue today...2-3 tanks and you have to run seafoam through it??...I suspect other problems with the gas you're getting other than ethanol...I use seafom in the springtime, and then again in the summer sometime just "because"....Mileage and performance have stayed consistant tank after tank of 10% blend...Truth be told, I haven't seen any gas stations around here in over 20 years with 100% gasoline...And like Charlie D said, I'm not about to pay "big oil" another dollar per gallon for 100% gasoline even if I could...They're raping me enough everytime I buy gas as it is....
 

·
.45 Goodness
Joined
·
3,078 Posts
I've noticed that on the rare occasion you can find non-ethenol gas
at 87 octane My bike gets a rock solid 45mpg.

With a 10% ethenol mix, The 87 octane only nets Me 39-40mpg at best,

Now the Gummit wants to go 15%?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
27,731 Posts
From what I can find the damages seem to be found mostly in 2 stroke engines that sit more than they are run. The entanol tend to mix with water and hold it rather than seperate. I'd say read all the articles Marine stabil should be used in tanks that are going sit for awhile and sea foam used every 3-4 tank on engine that get a steady useage. The ethanol isn't going to go away so we have to start doing things a little different than before. I don't see a major problem just a new scheduled maint. habit to follow. Is it neccessary, I don't know for sure. Is it better to take measures to keep the gas fresher, again I don't know for sure but given the high cost of engine repairs why take the chance. I will error on the side of safety every time to me it's better to spend a few bucks being wrong and not hurt anything than be wrong and cost thousands. It's just cheap insurance to me and we all hope we never need to use our insurance. Being too frugal can cost big down the road.
 

·
Favorite Bike - V65 Magna
Joined
·
1,437 Posts
I've noticed that on the rare occasion you can find non-ethenol gas
at 87 octane My bike gets a rock solid 45mpg.

With a 10% ethenol mix, The 87 octane only nets Me 39-40mpg at best,

Now the Gummit wants to go 15%?
I noted the same thing. With non-ethanol gas my mileage was about 10% better. I took a good look at that over several tankfulls. Now, here in Florida, we won't be able to get non-ethanol for highway use.

The Government is targeting 85% ethanol by maybe as early as 2025. That's the reason for the push for 'Multi-fuel' vehicles. 85% ethanol will get the clunkers off the road.

Geezer
 

·
shock factor unrated
Joined
·
12,435 Posts
i love these threads!!!.........enjoy the brand names, it makes me more money cause i get to haul more loads...
 

·
Erect Member
Joined
·
11,583 Posts
i use whatever gas is at the gas station i stop at when i need gas.

last job i had driving a truck, i had to drive 50 miles each way to and from work. i used to listen to other drivers complaining about how much diesel fuel was...and how much gas was for their car. my philosophy is the same now as it was then...if i need gas, i get it. doesnt matter what type or how much, as long as it serves the purpose i need it for.
 

·
Molon Labe!
Joined
·
96 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Geezer, check the list of Florida stations on that list. There are quite a few. Not sure of any in the panhandle, but take a look.
Scaput
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top