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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I’m an Army vet so I’ll try not to state what the other branches plan to do for the coming changes.
There are likely a good percentage of VTX riders that are vets and the recent decision to allow gays to serve have stirred a lot of emotions/ speculation as to its effects. A majority of vets (including myself) have not been “comfortable” with serving with gays (even though we likely did unknowingly) and have not supported the “politically correct” agenda since it was first pushed during the Clinton era (why do liberal issues explode during blue state rule?).
One observation I have made about the gay movement is that (they) are unconcerned with effects to national security (I know, the repub’s and generals already used that bullet…without success) this decision will have. I could best compare this new “experiment” for the military to the failure of men and women serving within the same unit. If you don’t think there are any problems with men and women serving together then you have not been assigned to a unit where the “soap opera” drama never ceased because fraternization, favoritism, double standards, sexual harassment and even “baby mama drama”. I’ve seen whole commands be absorbed for months due to male/ female “issues” that had to be dealt with. The Army has not been in the business of “fairness” and has always sided with female soldiers in every aspect. An example being that a male cannot claim sexual harassment while the female can. Another example could be how females must pass half the standards of the bi-annual physical training test than men (we’re the same right? Why the different standards? Oh, now we’re different when it’s beneficial and convenient!). I’m not against women in the military; I’m against males/ females serving together.
I predict the same failed history will repeat itself for heterosexual/ homosexual joint service (and you can be damned sure that the Army will be “progressive” in favoring, supporting and even promoting homosexual service like they’ve done with females). There’s gonna be “sensitivity” classes, recognition month celebrations and vigorous investigations/ prosecutions of any claims of gay bashing.
My biggest question is: What does sexuality have to do with military service anyway? Why is this even an issue? The only conclusion I can accept is that gays are not truly interested in serving their country, but they are interested in having a government agency recognize and support their agenda. That’s not acceptance, that’s assimilation.
You’re probably thinking I’m against gays in the military but that’s not true. After seeing a dozen “soldiers” cop-out of deployments with the sudden admittance (and likely false) of homosexuality, I’m sickened by the waste of tax dollars this person cost us. Yes, I say let them serve. No more avoiding deployments with this lame excuse. Males and females are “sardined” together so I’m sure the military will figure a way to use the same policies to look good before the liberals and act as if the “change” is flawless.
The price for this decision will be paid by heterosexuals. Since gays will be the new “pets”, the military will prevent any sexual harassment claims (and likely sexual assaults charges) they commit against straight soldiers but boldly pursue any claims from the gay service member. There will be whole departments just dedicated to the gay soldiers and their needs.
All this had been predicted by some resigning generals during the Clinton dynasty. I would prefer if Osama was dealt with, not this “waste of debate”.
So IMO, let gays serve and we’ll work out the problems through the military justice system. Heterosexuals have been filling body bags for this country for a long time; it’s time for gays to do the same.
It’s gonna be a fiasco!
Disclaimer: Any perceived insult was not intended. For authorization of this statement please see article one of the Bill of Rights and the debts paid by those residing at Arlington cemetery.
 

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I'm a Vietnam Vet and on the line I couldn't care less if a person was straight or gay. As long as I new that person to do their job or I could count on them is all I needed. The different Armies I have seen while in Europe don't have a problem with it. This is long overdue. I'm straight but they should have the same rights as afforded me. They got red blood and shed it too. The Army is pretty good about weeding out "not Army Material" during basic and such. I'm not saying weeding out gays but anyone whole just isn't mentally or physically right for the military. Just my OP so don't send hate mail Thanks
 

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I've been against openly gays serving and actually was given direct orders (along with our entire comapny) not to threaten, contact, or acknowledge a member of the unit that came out. This was in '94 when there was no threat of a combat deployment at the time. Have to agree with some of your points though.
I really do like your disclaimer as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Good point(s).

Thank you for your service.

The American people owes you (Vietnam vets) an apology for sending you into war and not supporting you.

Tom
 

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Liberal far left agenda always comes clothed as a middle ground issue. Stay tuned for what comes next while this wears the cloak of legitimacy and the true results and price will be to far up the road to turn back. Think not!?! Ask yourself how our country now defines what a basic family unit is. That is our society's basic building block. Check that in the political journals all the way to TV titles. This is not how the founding fathers envisioned........... A society without boundaries, or the will to say enough is enough to pacify those at the fringes is soon undone. The rise and fall of the Roman Empire is a book worth reading if anyone here likes to look at how these same kinds of issues have played out in history. We seem to be determined to repeat the same history. Change the names of the politicians and the technology of the day and you will find the erosion of principal and cause to be very much the same. No hate mail please. Just one opinion from one who has seen a lot of politics bastardizing what our society once stood for.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Because of radical changes within this country (thats been "force fed" to me), I've become a supporter of "freedom from" rather than "freedom of".

America is the only country where a small group of unique individuals dictate the majority of traditional citizens.

Tom
 

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gays do not want to assimilate...if they did, they wouldnt make such a big deal.....they want separate but equal rights.......I'm not, nor have I ever been in the military, but I'm sure its run like any big machine...with as much effort to please all but those doing the work as possible.........and in the private sector, women can claim sexual harassment, but men cannot....we want it!! (so they say)......if people would just act like people and leave their private lives at home, it would be a much better place to live!! and no, I'm not anti gay.......I'm really not anti too much.....my very bright daughter said once, we cant be prejudice...we're Jewish! thanks everyone for your service!!!!
 

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gays do not want to assimilate...if they did, they wouldnt make such a big deal.....they want separate but equal rights.......I'm not, nor have I ever been in the military, but I'm sure its run like any big machine...with as much effort to please all but those doing the work as possible.........and in the private sector, women can claim sexual harassment, but men cannot....we want it!! (so they say)......if people would just act like people and leave their private lives at home, it would be a much better place to live!! and no, I'm not anti gay.......I'm really not anti too much.....my very bright daughter said once, we cant be prejudice...we're Jewish! thanks everyone for your service!!!!
I agree with everything you said except for the "they want seperate but equal rights". I believe they want EQUAL but SPECIAL rights. It seems they want to be given rights others are not given. In CA we have t put up with the ASHOLEs in northern CA (San Fransisco) that thinks they are all special and their opinions count for more then WE the People.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
In my experience, the military differs from the private sector in this aspect (which should nullify the importance of sexual orientation anyway):

Soldiers do not have rights (rather precious few allowed during criminal accusations). There is no "softer" way to describe their obligation except as "expendable" for the continued exhistance of this country, its citizens and way of life. I know some out there have family serving so I'm not saying they're "cannon fodder" but being K.I.A. is a reality.

The time we debate "what status" we give homosexual members, we could have taken a hill in Afghanistan.

Soldiers don't have "rights". Three "hots and a cot" is the best they can expect. I know that sounds "primitive" but we're about to get burdened with "special treatment" that has no place being argued while our enemies plot our demise and that of our children.

All because a "few" want to hold hands in public (without consequences) while in uniform (not allowed anyway while in uniform for any orientation but the gays will surely get a waiver so the Army can be "progressive".)

Eventually gays in the military will have "priority" status over strait members because they are "different" and a sort of "affirmitive action" will be needed to make up for any previous (perceived) greivances.

Politics (nor its PC agendas) has no place in the chain of command.
 

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In CA we have t put up with the ASHOLEs in northern CA (San Fransisco) that thinks they are all special and their opinions count for more then WE the People.
Hey, hey, hey...I resemble that remark. San Jose is northern CA, but it is clearly NOT SF!!:nono:
 

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Hey, hey, hey...I resemble that remark. San Jose is northern CA, but it is clearly NOT SF!!:nono:
But I qualified it with the word ASHOLES... If you are not a SF ASHOLE then you are not included in my statement. Oh, and Berkeley sucks too.
 

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My take:

First off, I care not a whit what a person does in private. Not any of my business, at all. That said, the military is not a place for social experimentation, especially in times of war. What the debate is NOT about is rights, even though the Homosexual Lobby is couching their agenda in those terms. It is about making all people ACCEPT their lifestyle as normal, which it isn’t. Normal is defined as what the majority do or act like. Homosexuality is NOT that. The homosexual is somewhere between .7% and 1.2% of total population, with an increase in urban areas, quite possibly due to the response of over-crowding. The sole purpose of the whole debate over marriage and service in the military is attempting to get those who are not in acceptance of the lifestyle, to accept it. Why else would they ask people to celebrate it as a part of social “diversity”? As I said, I really don’t care what a person does, but don’t redefine things to make a social deviancy non-deviant, just to make people feel better about themselves, as it really only serves to confuse the issue. Homosexuals have all the same rights under the Constitution as we all do.


Maybe, once the war is over and we enter a period of peace, we can see about assimilation into the military where homosexuals can serve, with a sunset clause requiring review and renewal by the Joint Chiefs, but as it is now, I think it is disruptive to the mission and inadvisable.

As an addendum, this whole notion of making the military an arm of the executive branch subject to Congressional review on policy and operations is a bad, bad idea.
 

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I wonder if there are any politicians here among us who ride an X, and are reading what "we the people" think? :hmm2: I've read some well thought out comments from many on this thread, not just lifestyle (deviant as it is) bashing. Particularly from those who have a military background and the experience to have a credibility on the issue. What bugs me is I don't think these thoughts and opinions are limited to the cafe members, and still our leadership bends to the will of the few, to force this upon us all. Like was said in another post. They make a big issue to force us all to accept their choices of lifestyle as normal. Its not! Be abnormal if ya like, but do it where and how it is not forced upon the rest of society. Keep pushing back people, otherwise were going to be stuck with what the few want!:nope:
 

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I retired from the Navy in 2003 as a Senior Chief/E-8 (hence the user name). I used to be adamantly against the gay lifestyle, but that all changed when I realized that some of my closest co-workers were likely gay.

Having said that, I know that there will be some problems integrating openly gay service members into the mix, but the military in general has a good track record of maintaining good order and discipline.

Will some people leave the service because of this? Absolutely. I had an E-7 working for me at my last command who was seriously homophobic. I know he is retired, but he is the type of person who would leave over this. IMO, he would not be a great loss as he wasn't a very good sailor in the first place.

I fully support the repeal of DADT. It won't be easy, but it is the right thing to do, at least in the Navy and probably the Air Force. I won't pretend to speak for my brothers and sisters in the Corps or the Army though. I think they will have a tough time implementing the repeal.

As a Senior Chief on an Aircraft Carrier, the ONLY thing that mattered to me was a person's performance while on the ship. I didn't care what someone did on their own time.

I now work with an openly gay woman. While it is the civilian sector, she is a great co-worker. It doesn't matter to me that she is gay.
 

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Liberal far left agenda always comes clothed as a middle ground issue. Stay tuned for what comes next while this wears the cloak of legitimacy and the true results and price will be to far up the road to turn back. Think not!?! Ask yourself how our country now defines what a basic family unit is. That is our society's basic building block. Check that in the political journals all the way to TV titles. This is not how the founding fathers envisioned........... A society without boundaries, or the will to say enough is enough to pacify those at the fringes is soon undone. The rise and fall of the Roman Empire is a book worth reading if anyone here likes to look at how these same kinds of issues have played out in history. We seem to be determined to repeat the same history. Change the names of the politicians and the technology of the day and you will find the erosion of principal and cause to be very much the same. No hate mail please. Just one opinion from one who has seen a lot of politics bastardizing what our society once stood for.
You hit it on the head D Day. A Spanish philosopher once said, "Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it." From a secular perspective, wild animals even have the sense to mate with the opposite sex. Homosexuality is a lifestyle of death, example - 2 islands, one with normal people and the other with homo sexuals, guess which one dies out? Now from a Christian perspective, the military is an ordained means by God for the defense of a people or a nation for just causes, and when you allow individuals that degrade themselves to such a vile desire, what are you allowing to join the ranks of those who are called to endure hardships and or even death in the line of duty? Even the premise of "don't ask, don't tell" implies shame. Why is it shameful UNLESS there's something wrong with it right? The family is THE pillar of every culture / civilization and when you pervert it by encouraging and or supporting those "things" that deteriorate it (fornicating, divorce, dependency on the state/fed for basic's i.e. welfare, legalizing sodomy = GAY MARRIAGE) you will slowly but surely destroy a nation. Like it or not over 3/4ths of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were strong, conservative Protestants. Even the "deists" like Jefferson were more pious than most evangelicals today, and when they framed our consitution, it was meant to operate within a biblical framework. Just my 2 cents / conviction from a Christian.

Proverbs 13:34 - "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people."
 

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as vocal as i am, i have no comment on this thread....merry christmas to all!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have to hand it to the gay community. They (whomever chose the military for their agenda) chose a target that, once acheived, will be a catalyst for the other departments of government. This is no accident. They've had some success with the marriage issue but once the military is "accepting", the courts will have no choice but to concurr.

This has been a longterm plan. It's called "creeping gradualism". Our military will have to deal with additional problems now and we'll be weaker for it.

I want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread (past, present and future) regardless of their stand. The overall feedback seemed to be concerning if there will be harmful consequences to our defense. I beleive that trumps any coalition and their goals.

I'm confident that this is merely a stepping stone to what the gay community has conspired to do..........remove all roadblocks to same-sex marriage NATIONWIDE.

If anything has ever convinced me to no-longer support our government its this. There are serious problems that need attention before we bankrupt our currency and THIS is what they act on???

How will this help anyone find work?

It would be different if the majority of Americans supported this but they don't. "If" this proves disasterous for our servicemembers, every politician who supported it should be held accountable for treason for purposely causing chaos in time of defense.
 

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Well said.......... very, well said!:patriot:
You hit it on the head D Day. A Spanish philosopher once said, "Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it." From a secular perspective, wild animals even have the sense to mate with the opposite sex. Homosexuality is a lifestyle of death, example - 2 islands, one with normal people and the other with homo sexuals, guess which one dies out? Now from a Christian perspective, the military is an ordained means by God for the defense of a people or a nation for just causes, and when you allow individuals that degrade themselves to such a vile desire, what are you allowing to join the ranks of those who are called to endure hardships and or even death in the line of duty? Even the premise of "don't ask, don't tell" implies shame. Why is it shameful UNLESS there's something wrong with it right? The family is THE pillar of every culture / civilization and when you pervert it by encouraging and or supporting those "things" that deteriorate it (fornicating, divorce, dependency on the state/fed for basic's i.e. welfare, legalizing sodomy = GAY MARRIAGE) you will slowly but surely destroy a nation. Like it or not over 3/4ths of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution were strong, conservative Protestants. Even the "deists" like Jefferson were more pious than most evangelicals today, and when they framed our consitution, it was meant to operate within a biblical framework. Just my 2 cents / conviction from a Christian.

Proverbs 13:34 - "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people."
 
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