I've never hit a governor on my F - all the way to redline in 5thBesides the "red line" rpm limit, is there also a max speed (mph) limit built into the bike computer?
Very good question! I would say it will stop a lot quicker than a 1300I'm curious how fast the 1800 could STOP when it's at top speed.:shrug: This seems like a FAR more important detail to me. I love torque, I love getting up to speed, but speeding doesn't interest me these days. I guess I'm gettin' old.
But those Ferengi lyin' bastages assured me I could do 9.8! On a serious note, the faster you (appear to) go, the more error the speedo's have w/o corrective devices to zero them. As far as stopping ability, I have that covered too, w/ a darkside putting more rubber to the road on her backside translating to quicker stopping.I just want to clarify something for future members who desire to post here...
The VTX carries the same engine, transmission, and gearing in all versions of their 1800 (C,R,S,T,N,F). The 1300 also maintains the same engine, transmission, and gearing for all versions (C,R,S,T)
While I can't offer input on the 1300, I know the 1800 from the factory is capable of reaching red line in all 5 gears (no bags/no windscreen/one rider) given enough road and proper conditions.
Now follow this close... the same RPMs (red line) will turn the same transmission gears the same number of times. Every transmission on every 1800 will spin the driveshaft the same number of times at the same engine RPM. The same final drive gears will translate that spinning driveshaft into the same number of rotations of the wheel/tire. In essence - every 1800 has nearly the same top speed!!! (allowing for different rear tire circumferences as different models have different tire sizes)
The formula: speed = engine RPM * transmission gear ratio * final drive gear ratio * rear wheel circumference
NOTE - Horsepower and torque are not factors in top speed, they are factors in acceleration. They can only impact top speed where the engine is able or not able to reach red line in top gear
Here's the variables that are possible and common that actually change your top speed:
- Different size rear tire = larger diameter tires will travel longer distances in the same number of revolutions, thus allowing higher top speed (assuming you don't oversize the tire for the engine's power)
- Different final drive gear set - - it is a common mod to swap the final drive from a 1300 onto an 1800. I haven't done this so I can't answer the exact impact to top speed, but this gear change provides a different multiplier in the speed equation
- Different red line - - adjusting the RPM at which the computer hits the rev limiter will change how many times the motor turns over, thus changing the speed equation
- Note that red line is set by Honda due to design of the cam, lifters, valves, balance, etc. Higher red line requires more precision and machine work to internal engine components
- Different transmission gear ratios - - I've never heard of this being done on a VTX.
So, with that little walk through in mechanical engineering, we now return to the tall tales of top speeds.
***** One last caveat - If you've completed the Di-Lithium Crystal upgrade in your aftermarket warp core, you should be able to achieve warp 9.4. Not the 9.8 that PaXman11 is claiming. He's a liar. :icon_poke
If you are saying this because of the dual front brakes, I will disagree that this will have an impact in a "normal" isolated emergency braking situation. With the single front rotor/caliper, you can exert enough force to lock up the front wheel. If you can do this, then it is impossible to get any additional braking force. The maximum amount of braking force that can be used is the amount just short of what it takes to lock up the wheel. If a single rotor/caliper can lock up the front wheel, then that single rotor/caliper system can also exert the maximum braking force.Very good question! I would say it will stop a lot quicker than a 1300![]()
Don't hate me cause I have two front rotors and a multi piston rear caliper!
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I have an 1800 and I confirm that there was no speed limiter reached prior to reaching red line in 5th gearOthers in this thread, I believe, have spoken of hitting a speed limiter separate from the red line rev limiter. I don't own an 1800 and would not go that fast if I did so I certainly cannot confirm this based on personal experimentation. I'm also too lazy to go look though 21 pages to see if my alcohol addled recollection is accurate. Someone help me out. Is there a speed limiter as well as a rev limiter on an 1800?
I really do hope you're not saying that breaking power is equal simply because you can lock up the brakes. Once a tire is locked up, you have decreased the friction between the bike and the road, decreasing the stopping power. If that logic was correct, then the Chevy Citation I had in high school had maximum stopping power as well - comparable braking power to a similar weight race car? I think not.If you are saying this because of the dual front brakes, I will disagree that this will have an impact in a "normal" isolated emergency braking situation. With the single front rotor/caliper, you can exert enough force to lock up the front wheel. If you can do this, then it is impossible to get any additional braking force. The maximum amount of braking force that can be used is the amount just short of what it takes to lock up the wheel. If a single rotor/caliper can lock up the front wheel, then that single rotor/caliper system can also exert the maximum braking force.
The dual rotor/caliper is useful in cases where there could be too much heat buildup such as extended downhill braking or multiple hard uses of the brakes in rapid succession such as in racing or very fast riding through the twisties.
In a single isolated emergency braking situation, heat buildup in the rotor/caliper is not an issue. Given that the maximum useful braking force can be reached with both the 1300 brake system and the 1800 brake system, what will determine stopping distance is primarily the skill of the rider. But, since the question is about the mechanical aspects of the bike, then (assuming equal riding proficiency) what will make a difference is the weight of the bike and the friction between the tire and the ground. An 1800 weighs more which hurts its braking distance but it has wider tires which should help its braking distance.
In summary, it is really hard to say which bike would have the advantage in braking distance but the dual front rotor/caliper on the 1800 is irrelevant in the situation being discussed (single instance emergency braking).
Dunno where the actual redline on the 1800 is b'cuz It didn't come equipped with a tach. However,...it does have what I understand to be a rev limiter. Mine and a few others have been reported to come into play when the indicated speed of 144 is attained. At that time the motor pretty much goes into a "stall" of sorts.Others in this thread, I believe, have spoken of hitting a speed limiter separate from the red line rev limiter. I don't own an 1800 and would not go that fast if I did so I certainly cannot confirm this based on personal experimentation. I'm also too lazy to go look though 21 pages to see if my alcohol addled recollection is accurate. Someone help me out. Is there a speed limiter as well as a rev limiter on an 1800?
My 1800F has the digital tach (which I don't entirely trust the accuracy of) and it consistently reads about 5,500 when the rev limiter causes the engine to stutter and cut power, regardless of gear. This is the very same feel you get when you reach the 140+ readout on the speedometer in 5th gear.Dunno where the actual redline on the 1800 is b'cuz It didn't come equipped with a tach. However,...it does have what I understand to be a rev limiter. Mine and a few others have been reported to come into play when the indicated speed of 144 is attained. At that time the motor pretty much goes into a "stall" of sorts.
If there's a seperate "speed" limiter,...this is the first I've heard of such.
As for riding to WOT. I don't recommend it to anyone. I only do cuz I'm a special kind of stoopid sometimes but, fully aware of the risk and carefully pick my places to run it up,...and then only sans other traffic.
The real charm of the power these HOnda have is in low end torque.
So I checked it out and apparently those brake upgrades on the 1800 actually significantly impact braking distance..... An 1800 weighs more which hurts its braking distance but it has wider tires which should help its braking distance.
In summary, it is really hard to say which bike would have the advantage in braking distance but the dual front rotor/caliper on the 1800 is irrelevant in the situation being discussed (single instance emergency braking).
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Having two front rotors does NOT help you stop quicker than with a single rotor provided 1) you are talking about a single emergency braking situation and 2) you are able to lock up the tire with both a single and a double rotor system. I am also NOT saying that locking up the tire gives you the most braking ability. As you note, quite the opposite. You get terrible braking when locking up a tire.I really do hope you're not saying that breaking power is equal simply because you can lock up the brakes. Once a tire is locked up, you have decreased the friction between the bike and the road, decreasing the stopping power. If that logic was correct, then the Chevy Citation I had in high school had maximum stopping power as well - comparable braking power to a similar weight race car? I think not.
Regarding weight, the 1800 weight ranges 778 to 804 and the 1300 is between 678 to 748. That's only 3-18% heavier in the difference in weight.
Yes, having two rotors on the front increases the ability to apply brakes without locking up the tires, thereby decreasing stopping distance.
While I concede the fact that I have not witnessed or read about any comparison of stopping distances between the two bikes, I doubt that the lower weight offsets the increased braking power enough to have a better stopping distance with the 1300.
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I've been riding for 50 years. Owned over 16 various motos. Up until a few years ago I had 3 in the garage. My current Xc, a Vmax I had since '91 and a Vulcan 1500 since '96.Maybe, some of us need to look back on our motorcycle safety training courses to the part where they discuss and practice "Threshhold braking", or that point where you reach just short of a full lock-up situation. If you haven't taken the course, research the term, and then maybe do some practice for your own peace of mind and safety.
Look - differences between the 1300 and 1800 brake systems are:...Once you agree that you can lock up the tire with both a single and double rotor system, then the maximum braking ability (shortest stopping distance) is no longer a function of the number of rotors but, rather, depends on other factors like the bike weight and friction between tire and road. Of course, this all assumes an equal skill level of the person riding the one and two rotor bike.
I understand your logic, but I still have a mental block about it. Additional rotor allows for additional brake pad contact patches giving additional friction to stop. While one rotor can still lock up the tire, I don't believe that provides all the stopping friction that a second rotor and caliper can provide at the moments prior to lockup.I'm making absolutely no statement on the 1300 vs 1800 braking. All I'm saying is that two rotors is NOT superior to one rotor for a standard emergency braking situation for the logical reasons I have already outlined. It is really simple science/physics/logic.