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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lazydawg (Jeff) posted a great power box (fuse box) mod at http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php?t=17395&highlight=fuse+box+mod. His post and the subsequent thread (which probably needs to be distilled down into a sticky) not only gave me a fuse box solution, but it also educated me on my options.

Jeff's thread got me thinking about how to design a solution for my own bike which on which I'm about to install a number of accessories. I did a design which showed all the components, the fuse sizes, and the wire gauges. Not being an electrician, I wasn't able to do the diagram with all the proper symbols and using the standard diagraming technique, but the diagram was good enough to demonstrate to me the need for some kind of a relay organizer.

Anybody got an idea on how to organize four or more relays?

If you'll double click on the diagram I've attached, you'll see a version of Jeff's power box in red at the left. The first fuse appears separated from the remaining fuses in the diagram, but I intend it to be one of the fuses in the consolidated fuse box. Instead of feeding the fuse box through a central power post I will feed it through the post for the first fuse.

You'll notice a black box at the bottom. This is my ground buss. I will probably implement this as some have suggested as a brass plate on the bottom of the power box. I will install a number of ground screws on the plate.

On the diagram you'll also see four green boxes. These are my relays. I've labeled each plug with what I hope to be the correct port number. These are the relays I'd like to see organized in some manner so I don't have them hanging off the ends of wires and stuffed under the seat.

I've attempted to put some order to my diagram by color coding the wires and writing the gauge next to each wire (eg. 10g). These are minimums. A couple of them are still blank because I haven't finished researching these lines and those devices.



The accessories this diagram is designed for include:
  1. Glen's Alarm Switch
  2. Two front driving lights
  3. A Stebel horn
  4. An accessory port for things like GPS, iPOD, phone, etc. (I'll split any of these off onto their own circuit if it appears they draw a lot of power.)
I'd appreciate any comments on my design, and as I already asked, any suggestions on how to organize the relays.

I'd rather ya'll catch my design flaws here on the forum instead of me catching them with a puff of smoke during the installation.
 

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the design looks good to me but like you i am not an electrician or an alarm guy. relays are very light and just need to be held still to keep wires from working loose. i would try velcro on the inside of the box where you are talking about mounting the fuse box. just and idea.
 

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I remember reading a post a long while back where someone made a small tray that sets right in front of the battery box to hold their relays.
I'll see if I can find it.

All I could find was a reference to the post in Jeff's power distribution mod thread.

"I installed the box that Phil refers to (I think I told him about it
) a couple weeks ago and it is awesome! It does have screw terminals as well as separate ground connections. I also made a relay holder out of some aluminum. I saw someone else on here with something like that, maybe it was Poison? I used some aluminum that I have, cut it, bent it, and then used some 1/4" diameter tubing (the kind you might use for a water dispenser) to wrap the edges so they wouldn't rub against any wires. If someone wants the dimension I used, let me know and I can find where I wrote them down and post them. I drilled a hole where the stock wire holder connects to the battery holder and just use the same screw to mount my relay holder. The extra hole on the left by the tank is for using a zip tie to keep things secure, but I haven't buttoned it up yet. I bought some heavy duty Radio Shack hook and loop material (better than velcro) to use for fastening the relays to the holder: one large strip at the bottom and then a small piece on each relay. I used the same material to mount the fuse block on the storage compartment door. I tapped the brown wire in the headlight bucket, because I was tapping several wires in there, and use that to trigger my relay. I have cables connected to the battery thru the relay with some heavy gauge wire. The pics below don't show it with the cover on. I will take some later and post them.
"

It is basically a small tray that fits between the "V" of the frame right under the seat, that the relays set in.
 

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Relocation Engineer
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another idea ive seen they were mounted on a tray that slipped into the useless tool box.
 

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for one you don't need a relay for the driving lights if you are using a relay to power the fuse box through the wire in the headlight which turns off the power to the box when start switch is pushed (key on power).

Next up is for the alarm you need constant power with the key off so a relay isn't needed for it just a constant hot or you could use a relay to cut power to it with key on but why.

The Stebel horn does need the relay

So you really only need 2 relays
you would also need a switch if you want to turn the driving lights off
on your small draw items say for phone charger or ipod GPS and so on they draw very little and the power cords for them are usually fused so you can hook 2 or 3 items to say a 5 amp fuse due to their small draw or you could use a dual power outlet hooked to a 10 amp plug.
 

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Yes, $80.00 is alittle high, but after seeing Scott's(showmevtx) in person, and checking out the testimonials, in my opinion, it's worth it. I really like the idea of having constant power along with switched power in one package with 30A capacity.
 

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for one you don't need a relay for the driving lights if you are using a relay to power the fuse box through the wire in the headlight which turns off the power to the box when start switch is pushed (key on power).

Next up is for the alarm you need constant power with the key off so a relay isn't needed for it just a constant hot or you could use a relay to cut power to it with key on but why.

The Stebel horn does need the relay

So you really only need 2 relays
you would also need a switch if you want to turn the driving lights off
on your small draw items say for phone charger or ipod GPS and so on they draw very little and the power cords for them are usually fused so you can hook 2 or 3 items to say a 5 amp fuse due to their small draw or you could use a dual power outlet hooked to a 10 amp plug.

and would also add that there is nothing shown in the wiring diagram, other than the connections to the ground bar and the main power feed, that would/should require the use of 12 AWG wire, 14 AWG maybe, 16 AWG - probably.

Since I am not using driving lights, I used that power connection in the headlight housing for my GPS/Cell - already fused, goes on/off with the key and as Charlie states - both devices are low power & already have fused power cords...

One other note - the diagram shows a direct connection direct from the battery to a ground bar and another direct connection from the battery to, what I assume is a 30 amp relay. Since the battery connections are known to be troublesome, I'd suggest moving those two connection to the end of their respective cables. i.e. - follow the ground cable down to where it is bolted to the engine and connect there and the same with positive cable - where it connects to the fuse block. You can get good solid connections at those points and avoid having a bunch of extra wires attached at the battery terminals..
 

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Yes, $80.00 is alittle high, but after seeing Scott's(showmevtx) in person, and checking out the testimonials, in my opinion, it's worth it. I really like the idea of having constant power along with switched power in one package with 30A capacity.
Did a little research myself and found this very useful information from a BMW board...http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407243....some pretty good discussions going on. And here is another site for wiring it up...http://www.pashnit.com/product/fuzeblocks/install_fuzeblocks.html.....
 

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First, I only noticed a slight flaw in your schematic. You have your Headlight triggering your Horn Relay and your Horn triggering your Stebel relay :D

Here is a schematic I put together for a member a while back showing "general" accessory wiring idea, maybe it can help ya



I have my relays installed on either side of the battery box cover
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
for one you don't need a relay for the driving lights if you are using a relay to power the fuse box through the wire in the headlight which turns off the power to the box when start switch is pushed (key on power).

Next up is for the alarm you need constant power with the key off so a relay isn't needed for it just a constant hot or you could use a relay to cut power to it with key on but why.

The Stebel horn does need the relay

So you really only need 2 relays
you would also need a switch if you want to turn the driving lights off
on your small draw items say for phone charger or ipod GPS and so on they draw very little and the power cords for them are usually fused so you can hook 2 or 3 items to say a 5 amp fuse due to their small draw or you could use a dual power outlet hooked to a 10 amp plug.
Charlie,

Thanks. With respect to your suggestion about the driving lights not needing a relay--I was concerned that the wire gauge feeding the headlight might not be sufficient to feed both the headlight and the two driving lights. I figured to play it safe I would need to power the new driving lights directly from the battery.

With respect to your suggestion about the alarm--I wasn't sure how the alarm would be wired. I sent a note to Glen asking for a copy of the installation instructions so I could see if his wiring harness provided continuous power to the horn (circumvented the ignition switch). As stock, my horn does not have continuous power today, so I assumed his wiring would take care of that. I figured I would adapt my diagram based on the needs of his alarm.

I like your suggestion about a dual power outlet connected to a 10amp fuse. Thanks,

First, I only noticed a slight flaw in your schematic. You have your Headlight triggering your Horn Relay and your Horn triggering your Stebel relay :D
Jeff,

Oops! Good catch. Fixed it in V2. Thanks,


and would also add that there is nothing shown in the wiring diagram, other than the connections to the ground bar and the main power feed, that would/should require the use of 12 AWG wire, 14 AWG maybe, 16 AWG - probably.

Since I am not using driving lights, I used that power connection in the headlight housing for my GPS/Cell - already fused, goes on/off with the key and as Charlie states - both devices are low power & already have fused power cords...

One other note - the diagram shows a direct connection direct from the battery to a ground bar and another direct connection from the battery to, what I assume is a 30 amp relay. Since the battery connections are known to be troublesome, I'd suggest moving those two connection to the end of their respective cables. i.e. - follow the ground cable down to where it is bolted to the engine and connect there and the same with positive cable - where it connects to the fuse block. You can get good solid connections at those points and avoid having a bunch of extra wires attached at the battery terminals..
Duane,

With respect to you comment about wire gauges. I looked around the net and found some table which showed the gauges requirements based on the amps being passed. I rounded the amps for each circuit up and used the necessary gauge for that circuit. It does seem to me that having all those different gauge wires might be unnecessarily confusing. I'm thinking about just using the largest gauge needed on all the circuits.

With respect to your suggestion about the battery connections. I like your idea about moving the connections off the battery itself. I've updated V2 of my diagram.

did you think of doing this power distribution mod, shown in this thread here? really inexpensive.
Yes. Thanks, but I believe that is Jeff's mod which I referenced in my initial note on this thread. My only change was to put the fuse box on a relay triggered by the ignition switch through the headlight wire. He himself mentioned this I believe later on in his thread.

the design looks good to me but like you i am not an electrician or an alarm guy. relays are very light and just need to be held still to keep wires from working loose. i would try velcro on the inside of the box where you are talking about mounting the fuse box. just and idea.
Tiny,

Exactly my concern. I had planned to use velcro to make my tool box cover stay shut anyway. Velcroing the relays to a tray as suggested by John, and slipping the tray into the "useless tool box" as suggested by Mark is probably the way to go. I like Jeff's suggestion to attached the relays to the battery cover too. I'm going to look into that the next time I take my seat off.

Before you get too far with this, check this out for size:
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/
Mike,

Looks perfect for people who need both switched and unswitched circuits. Might just do that myself.

Did a little research myself and found this very useful information from a BMW board...http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407243....some pretty good discussions going on. And here is another site for wiring it up...http://www.pashnit.com/product/fuzeblocks/install_fuzeblocks.html.....
Spoiler,

Good BMW thread. Thanks. I found a recommendation in there I'm going to look into about coating the back of the fuse box with sealant to make it corrosion proof.

Great feedback from everyone. Here is V2 of my diagram with some fixes and some improvements. This is still a living diagram.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mike The headlight wire is to trigger the relay to make the fuse block hot not run the lights.

You will get it all sorted out and be happy with the results.
Oh, now I get it. Thanks. V3 is a bit simpler now. Now if I could just get Glen to tell me how his alarm works. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Before you get too far with this, check this out for size:
http://www.fuzeblocks.com/
I liked this fuse box until I saw that each circuit was limited to 10amps.

My Stebel horn draws 18 amps. Could I simply connect two 10amp circuits to the horn? Could I use a "Y" to attach both fuse box outputs to a single wire going to the relay (providing the trunk of the "Y" was of a gauge sufficient to handle 20amps)?
 

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I liked this fuse box until I saw that each circuit was limited to 10amps.

My Stebel horn draws 18 amps. Could I simply connect two 10amp circuits to the horn? Could I use a "Y" to attach both fuse box outputs to a single wire going to the relay (providing the trunk of the "Y" was of a gauge sufficient to handle 20amps)?
no need to run the horn off the fuse block just run trip wires from horn button to relay and fuse with 20 amp of the relay to the horn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
no need to run the horn off the fuse block just run trip wires from horn button to relay and fuse with 20 amp of the relay to the horn.
Yes, but why have a fuse box if I'm going to direct wire stuff this way. Wouldn't it be better to just get a fuse box that could handle 20amp circuits? Or, would my idea to run two 10amp circuits work?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thought I would go ahead and post my updated diagram. Still haven't implemented it yet, but all my parts have arrived and I will be taking a crack at it over the next two weeks.

This version 5 provides for two fuse boxes--one switched and one unswitched. I'll update the diagram once I've implemented everything so you will know that it works.
 
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