[goldrush89]

Hey guys --

Really hoping I can get some help here. I can't ride my bike and the season is almost over... I don't have much experience (anything but an oil change) with maintaining/working on my Honda VTX1300S. I really want to get to know my bike and learn how to work on it on my own. All in all, what I need to do is

change the brake fluid
change my brake pads
and.. most intimidating of all -- change my rear brake rotor (disc?). It's rusted pretty bad and ate up my brake pads.

First, should I attempt to do this job on my own, or should I take it to a mechanic? I'm willing to put time and effort into doing it on my own. Gotta start somehow. (been using bareasschoppers for tutorials, but haven't anything for help with replacing the rotor)

Do I need to remove the wheel to replace the rotor? Can you recommend anything I should be aware of?

Thank you for your help!!

Adam

 

[mjklaser]

Absolutely, do it yourself and learn how to work on your bike... you might need to buy some tools, but the reward is that you'll know it's done right. You'll get a ton of friendly help here, and can also download the Honda Service Manual for free! :cheers:

 

[Hiramsaint]

Definitely do it yourself. Why pay high $ to let some high school drop out wrench on your ride. Changing the above mentioned is really e-z. The rotor change will be the hardest part only because you need to remove the rear wheel-which isn't difficult to do. Do you have a stand or a lift? It's an S so now would be a good time to put on the required WW's:icon_danc

 

[goldrush89]

Got the white-walls -- and love em! I do have access to a lift.

 

[Hiramsaint]

http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php/35692-1300-Rear-brake-pad-R-amp-R-Write-up-with-pics

http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/wheels-tires/removeinstall-rear-tire-vtx/

To change your brake fluid, Take the master cylinder cover off, crack the bleeder loose and put a piece of surgical tubing on it long enough so it goes into an old bottle. Slowly pump the brakes and as the level goes down add new fluid until the clear fluid is coming out of the bleeder screw. Be careful and pump slowly as brake fluid will eff up your paint. For the front brake, put a towel or something under it.

 

[mjklaser]

...To change your...fluid, Take...off...on it long enough...and...put a towel or something under it.

That's what she said! :icon_chee

 

[Fishingfoolemjak]

I haven't taken the wheels off yet, so I got nothing for you there... but I have done the brake stuff... I've done the brakes on my trucks for years (as far as changing the pads I mean) but never did a bike until recently. I was a little intimidated by the unknown. But a little research on parts, and then diving into it cured me. This past sat I removed and rebuilt the front brake caliper, I was really nervous but figured worst case scenario- I'd have to take it to a mechanic or replace entire caliper.

Point is, if you want to do it, then you can do it. Service manual I hear is helpful. I have a clymer manual and it was very helpful.

 

[bill_rides]

first, Dirty Harry said it best

Limitations might be that if the bike is your only means of transportation then you need to assess if you have a plan B if you can't affect repair in x period of time. How do you obtain additional parts if needed with the bike off-line?

The fact that you post on a motorcycle forum means that you are a bit of an enthusiast and wish to share your own experiences and learn from others. That in itself is the best first step. There are those who simply have no interest in learning to be a safer rider, or how to fix things themselves or learn about new gadgets.

If you have the desire to learn and save some money, then only you stand in the way of your success. We're talking about disconnecting things, unbolting things, and re-assembling. It doesn't sound so difficult when put that way now does it? You just need to resolve yourself to certain things like the exhaust will need to be removed for some repairs/mods, seat and tank removed for others etc etc.

When I started my first business (note the word first) I hung a hand-made sign on the wall with 3 simple words; Dare To Fail

 

[IndyX]

MityVac.
You can get at harbor freight or other auto parts stores.
Handheld vacuum pump it is perfect for bleeding brakes efficiently.

Cover your painted surfaces in plastic. The front wheel and tank are right under the brake reservoir for front brake. You don't want to mess up the paint. Not something to freak out over but plastic is super cheap for a roll.

 

[Bassdude404]

most intimidating of all -- change my rear brake rotor (disc?). It's rusted pretty bad and ate up my brake pads.

Brake rotors are stainless steel, which doesn't rust....Going out on a limb here (because I've seen it before) and say that what has happened is the caliper is stuck (slide pins frozen up is the usual culprit) which doesn't allow the pads to fully release from the rotor surface...This ate up the pads, and when pad material runs out, then you have the steel backing plate contacting the rotor, embeding steel onto the rotor surface, and that is where the rust has come from on the rotor surface...Regardless, you still need to replace the rotor as it's now trashed, but there's also an issue with the caliper that also needs to be fixed or you'll have the same thing happen all over again...Replacing the rotor is straight forward...Remove the wheel, take the bolts off holding it on the wheel and bolt new rotor on...Honda service manual says to replace rotor bolts with brand new ones, but there's plenty of guys here that have re-used the old bolts, just use Loctite during reassembly and don't over-torque the bolts as it's easy to go too far and strip out the threads in the wheel...

 

[mjklaser]

...Replacing the rotor is straight forward...Remove the wheel, take the bolts off holding it on the wheel and bolt new rotor on...Honda service manual says to replace rotor bolts with brand new ones, but there's plenty of guys here that have re-used the old bolts, just use Loctite during reassembly and don't over-torque the bolts as it's easy to go too far and strip out the threads in the wheel...

I'm one of those guys who successfully re-used the wheel's rotor mounting bolts, without any problem at all. In the pic below are three 0.010” Teflon (compressible) shims that I used to maintain concentricity between the rotor and the collar feature of the wheel, while tightening the rotor mounting bolts. I removed the shims after torquing all rotor bolts (using a ‘star pattern’, with gradually increasing torque) to the Service Manual spec (I used red thread locker on the bolt threads). The rotor in this pic has a larger diameter center hole than a stock 1300 rotor (in order to fit an 1800C's wheel), but you get the idea. When re-installing the wheel on the bike, don't forget to put Moly60 paste (now Moly77, I think) on the 'male' driven-splines of the wheel and on the 'female' splines of the final drive (that is all detailed in the Honda Service Manual). Here's the pic:

 

[IndyX]

Biggest thing to remember is take your time.
Get a bike stand in addition to a jack and plan to have the bike up for a while.
Read read read.
Don't rush into the work without having an understanding of what you are getting into doing.

Many of us here have gone from little experience like you to doing everything on the bike. You can do it, just take the time to do it right.

 

[Vinish]

I've seen a number of rusty rotors so I never gave any thought as to whether they were carbon steel or stainless steel. Most stainless steel is NOT magnetic - that is, a magnet will not stick to it while all carbon steel is magnetic. I don't have a VTX handy here in Florida but I checked the rotors on my Victory and they are magnetic. These rotors could be a rare type of stainless that is magnetic but it seems more likely that they are not stainless. It is also possible that the VTX rotors are different entirely from the ones on a Victory bike. In either case, it does seem likely that the damage was caused by the problem Bassdude describes so check this prior to just replacing pads and rotor.

When removing the rotor, be aware that the bolts were installed with red loctite and can be very hard to break loose. An impact driver can be used but what I found very helpful when changing rotors was to use a small propane torch like those used to solder/sweat copper water pipe fittings. Adjust this torch to a small hot flame and put the hottest part of this flame on the head of each rotor bolt for about 45 seconds. This softens the loctite rendering it inactive at least temporarily. Immediately (with the bolt still very hot), start unscrewing the bolt. All you have to do is break each bolt loose by a rotation or two and then when they cool, you can take them all out easily. Good luck.

 

[mjklaser]

I've seen a number of rusty rotors so I never gave any thought as to whether they were carbon steel or stainless steel. Most stainless steel is NOT magnetic - that is, a magnet will not stick to it while all carbon steel is magnetic...These rotors could be a rare type of stainless that is magnetic but it seems more likely that they are not stainless. It is also possible that the VTX rotors are different entirely from the ones on a Victory bike. In either case, it does seem likely that the damage was caused by the problem Bassdude describes so check this prior to just replacing pads and rotor....

I looked into this a while back in another thread - I believe that our rotors are very likely made from 410 Stainless Steel, see below:

I had to go look it up to confirm but, indeed, motorcycle disc brake rotors are made from specially formulated and heat-treated stainless steel:

"Conventionally, SUS420J1 (13%Cr-0.2%C) and SUS420J2 (13%Cr-0.3%C) had mainly been used as rotor materials. However, while these steels have excellent heat resistance, a 2-stage heat treatment process comprising quenching and tempering is necessary to obtain the required hardness, and their corrosion resistance is somewhat inadequate... At present, low carbon martensitic stainless steel, as represented by JFE410DB, is mainly used, because proper hardness is obtained by quenching treatment only... and corrosion resistance is also excellent..."

taken from a JFE Steel technical report: Martensitic Stainless Steel “JFE410DB-ER” with Excellent Heat Resistance for Motorcycle Brake Disks

found at: http://www.jfe-steel.co.jp/en/research/report/012/pdf/012-11.pdf

 

[Bassdude404]

Just tried, and magnet sticks to the front rotor...Which raises the rust question in my mind still...I can leave one of our cars sitting for weeks at a time and eventually some surface rust forms on the rotors which gets scrubbed off when the brakes are applied...Yet the rotors on the bikes don't show even the slightest hint of rust, even after sitting for the entire winter....This is what lead me to believe they're stainless steel....

 

[IndyX]

When removing the rotor, be aware that the bolts were installed with red loctite and can be very hard to break loose. An impact driver can be used but what I found very helpful when changing rotors was to use a small propane torch like those used to solder/sweat copper water pipe fittings. Adjust this torch to a small hot flame and put the hottest part of this flame on the head of each rotor bolt for about 45 seconds. This softens the loctite rendering it inactive at least temporarily. Immediately (with the bolt still very hot), start unscrewing the bolt. All you have to do is break each bolt loose by a rotation or two and then when they cool, you can take them all out easily. Good luck.

Red loctite requires heat to remove it. Says so right on the tube. You might be able to get them off without it but it will be difficult.

Low grade stainless a magnet will stick to it.
Rotors might be stainless but not a high grade, would be too hard and pads wouldn't dig in properly.

 

[Vinish]

Bassdude, I think you are correct. See the post above yours. The rotors are likely one of the relatively rare grades of stainless that are magnetic but these usually are not as corrosion resistant as the magnetic stainless grades. An interesting metallurgical aside but don't lose site of the two key points - Bassdude's good suggestion to check your caliper pistons for sticking and my suggestion to use heat on the rotor bolts to minimize the risk of breaking one. That would be a nightmare as they are probably harder than normal steel.

 

[Hiramsaint]

That's what she said! :icon_chee

Damn, that required more work than necessary, Mark. I do appreciate your enthusiasm though!!!

 

[Hiramsaint]

Brake rotors are usually heat treated high carbon steel. Stainless would make them far to brittle to be used in an application that develops so much heat and then cools so quickly over and over again.

 

[goldrush89]

You guys rock. Thanks :glee:

Checking the caliper... would that mean it may require lubrication?