[Bassdude404]

So one of the supervisors in the building Jenny works with bought a Vstar 1300 and Jenny was telling him that I started a bike shop here at home on the side...He immediately asks her if I can make the bike "faster"...lol....So at lunchtime we ride in her car over and I take a peak at it...Looks to be 100% factory stock, right down to the stupid "warning" stickers on the gas tank....Done a little research this evening, and even registered at "Vstar 1300 Riders" forum, but can't post anything yet...This guy has plenty of $$ to play with, but have yet to ask him what he really wants...Can make it somewhat of a sleeper with drilling the factory exhaust and airbox if that's what he wants, or start letting him pick parts and ordering...Gonna be fun to mod somebody else's ride for them though!!...:mosh:

 

[wren]

Fuel injected. Set up for that yet?

Wren

 

[Bassdude404]

Fuel injected. Set up for that yet?

Wren

Me??..No, not yet...

 

[wren]

Me??..No, not yet...

Me neither, but haven't had to deal with it as yet. I suppose sometime or other I'll have to drop the bucks into a coupla programs.

I keep a laptop in the shop but it's only got tons of reference material and service manuals in it.

Wren

 

[Bassdude404]

Me neither, but haven't had to deal with it as yet. I suppose sometime or other I'll have to drop the bucks into a coupla programs.

I keep a laptop in the shop but it's only got tons of reference material and service manuals in it.

Wren

I really need to get a laptop...For now I just find what I want online, then send a link to my wife at work and she prints it out for me (free )..Then I have the printed version to use as reference whenever I need it...

From what I've gathered in the 30 minutes I was snooping around on the Vstar forum, they just buy an aftermarket FI controller and set the pots for the mods they've done...Drilling stock pipes and airbox, the stock ECM can keep up with, as long as the drilling isn't drastic...Gonna be a learning process for me, and it sounds like some good fun at the same time...

 

[wren]

Most of the time just disconnecting the battery for a few and then starting the bike let's the ECU catch up on what's happening.

Wren

 

[rocketman37]

Bass, what is your impression of the VSar?

 

[Coyotevols]

Hey BD let me know I can get a reconditioned dell laptop thru work for around 240. I dont care to abuse the system!:stirpot:

 

[06vtx1300]

i'm just getting into bikes..but i have worked on cars for ever these new ecu..will work fine with drilling..but you wont get the full effect of drilling the sirbox and exhaust..if you don't mod the ecu..at leat it works that way with cars..not too sure on bike ecu yet

 

[Big Jon]

Good luck. I wish I was closer so i could park my ride at the shop and let your work on mine.

 

[Bassdude404]

Bass, what is your impression of the VSar?

To be perfectly honest, I really didn't look that closely at it...Just a quick walk around to see if anything had been done to it yet...Stock 2-into-1 exhaust (not drilled), and stock airbox...Has the warning stickers on the tank, and a dealer license frame....Not even sure what year it is, or how long the guy (also named Bill..lol) has even had the bike...Jenny didn't get a chance to talk to him about it today, and he didn't get with me about it today either...When/if he turns it over to me, I'll (of course) have to take it for a blast down the highway for a baseline "butt dyno" feel for it...Then discuss what he wants and how much he wants to spend....Of course I'll suggest the least expensive ways to get the performance he's after, but it is HIS bike, and he'll get what HE wants first and foremost...Gonna send Jenny some pics of mine how it was brand-new stock, and the latest ones I snapped a month ago so he can compare what I've done to my own ride...

You all know I'll give my honest impressions of the bike after I get a ride on it, just like I did mdolph's 1800S...

 

[Tom O.]

i'm just getting into bikes..but i have worked on cars for ever these new ecu..will work fine with drilling..but you wont get the full effect of drilling the sirbox and exhaust..if you don't mod the ecu..at leat it works that way with cars..not too sure on bike ecu yet

I think you're right on with what you said. I would think a bike ECU would be the same as a car ECU. There is no real "learning curve" built into any ECU I have dealt with in the cars I have had. You either reflash them (like what BD was talking about) or you get a stand alone engine management system that would be fully tunable.

My experience, with cars, is that a reflash will only take you so far. If you want the most out of the mods you have you are much better off going with a stand alone system.

I watched a buddy of mine work his V Rod with a plug n play FI controller. He got some gains, wasn't bad, but wasn't great by any means. Switched to a full up system that allowed for more control and made a good bit more power. I rode it after both changes and there was a considerable difference in the way it felt between the two.

 

[simpleman44]

Most of the time just disconnecting the battery for a few and then starting the bike let's the ECU catch up on what's happening.

Wren

Not to sound like a dick but here we go again with some strange belief that disconnecting the bike's battery does anything to change the fuel injection programming in any way. The engine controller doesn't catch up on anything!!! I need to just learn to ignore this ridiculous suggestion and just get used to the fact that some things get stated on the internet and everyone believes it. The ECM on a VTX has no memory other than storing trouble codes!!
Someone even mentioned car control modules. Yes, they have a short term fuel trim memory but it also constantly changes based on input from the Air/ Fuel or O2 sensors. If you purposely cause say a vacuum leak on a newer car's engine- it will take very little time for the controller to readjust the short term and long term fuel trim.
The hardest thing that a car's computer has to deal with is relearning idle air control position. (nissans seem to be real bad at this- toyotas too) So, if you replace the battery in a late model car- better clean out the throttle plate/ throttle body. If not you will get stalling and it can take a long time for the pcm to relearn a new idle air position.
This is due to the erasure of the learned memory and the car's control module doesn't know that the throttle plate is all gummed up with carbon and doesn't flow as much air as it did new. So when the computer memory is reset to basically the base default- the car's idle is too low. So clean out the carbon and the proper amount of air will flow with the throttle plate in base position.

Other than that- can the disconnect the battery b.s. It's giving me a headache!!

 

[wren]

Never claimed a learning curve on the ECU. The ECU provides responses to the inputs it receives. Nothing more. How it compensates is very limited per the programming. But, it does compensate. Part of the programming.

And hate to drop this on you but it was a standard repair line procedure when something went wrong on assembly. If a brief disconnect allowed the proper responses, or not, then repair or adjustment procedures were followed accordingly.

Of course, my experience on that was limited to the time I worked at Honda.

Wren

 

[wanderingbear]

Disconecting the battery will usually clear soft codes. Like the fuel cap not being tightened properly and the check engine light coming on. Hard codes are the real problems that have to have work done to clear them. Code readers will translate the codes to readable languages. New readers can be used for many vehicles and are quite expensive for a good one. Tools are needed to do the job correctly and avoid replacing parts down the line to get the right one. Schooling is what's needed today, high school auto shops and community colleges do work on vehicles for reasonable prices and the work is checked by the teacher. No one without the proper license besides me will ever turn a wrench for pay on my bike. Hell I can read too.

 

[wren]

The 'trained technician' will do what the book tells him to do. The 'book' is written by engineers sitting behind a desk.

The 'amateur' will spend time reading the results others have had, will experiment and will learn what a vehicle that hasn't read the book likes.

It was the 'amateurs' like Scar that learned to tune the carbs from their detuned state and note what the results were, Clayton that took the time and found how to 'free' up the stock exhaust and what the results were. It was the 'amateurs' that learned how to cure the neck bearing problems and that one shim makes all the difference in the world on a stock set-up. It was 'amateurs' like Charlie, Gonzo, Bass and myself that took the time and played with the carb combos for jettings and settings to see what did what and what was snake-oil.

It is the 'trained technicians' that say a CT is unsafe and unstable and a risk on a motorcycle and it was the 'amateurs' that found vastly greater handling, braking, traction, reliability and comfort on those CTs.

It is the 'trained technicians' that declare re-jetting and re-programming are necessary with a pipe change and it was the 'amateurs' who found out that that little tid-bit just ain't true and does actually create problems.

For those that believe the 'trained technician' is the only safe and reliable person to work on their bike, I say, hey, whatever knocks yer socks off. But, in the meantime, we 'amateurs' are going to go on testing, comparing notes, posting results and learning what a 'trained technician' doesn't know.

It's just gonna be.

Wren

 

[simpleman44]

One more time for the cheap seats- The ecm on the VTX 1800 has no compensating or learning abilities!!! It has a preprogrammed set of fuel and timing settings in the computer that will not compensate or learn anything different no matter what intake, exhaust you install, or color you paint the bike!!!! So keep on disconnecting the battery and thinking something is resetting or some magic is occuring but the simple fact remains- you have done absolutely nothing by disconnecting the battery except clear any stored trouble codes and reset your tripmeter.

 

[Charlie D]

One more time for the cheap seats- The ecm on the VTX 1800 has no compensating or learning abilities!!! It has a preprogrammed set of fuel and timing settings in the computer that will not compensate or learn anything different no matter what intake, exhaust you install, or color you paint the bike!!!! So keep on disconnecting the battery and thinking something is resetting or some magic is occuring but the simple fact remains- you have done absolutely nothing by disconnecting the battery except clear any stored trouble codes and reset your tripmeter.

So is that a fact for the Star which this topic is about

If you don't know why not do the research for us and post up.

 

[wanderingbear]

The 'trained technician' will do what the book tells him to do. The 'book' is written by engineers sitting behind a desk.

The 'amateur' will spend time reading the results others have had, will experiment and will learn what a vehicle that hasn't read the book likes.

It was the 'amateurs' like Scar that learned to tune the carbs from their detuned state and note what the results were, Clayton that took the time and found how to 'free' up the stock exhaust and what the results were. It was the 'amateurs' that learned how to cure the neck bearing problems and that one shim makes all the difference in the world on a stock set-up. It was 'amateurs' like Charlie, Gonzo, Bass and myself that took the time and played with the carb combos for jettings and settings to see what did what and what was snake-oil.

It is the 'trained technicians' that say a CT is unsafe and unstable and a risk on a motorcycle and it was the 'amateurs' that found vastly greater handling, braking, traction, reliability and comfort on those CTs.

It is the 'trained technicians' that declare re-jetting and re-programming are necessary with a pipe change and it was the 'amateurs' who found out that that little tid-bit just ain't true and does actually create problems.

For those that believe the 'trained technician' is the only safe and reliable person to work on their bike, I say, hey, whatever knocks yer socks off. But, in the meantime, we 'amateurs' are going to go on testing, comparing notes, posting results and learning what a 'trained technician' doesn't know.

It's just gonna be.

Wren

I agree to a point, I no pro for sure but it's my bike so if I screw something up it's on me. Would I tear the engine apart and modify it , no way or the trans again no. I don't have all the proper tools or knowledge to do this stuff. Can I read, yes, but if I read a book on brain surgery am I going to start doing them as a side job???? I think the answer is obvious. There's mechanical work and there's bolting on chrome parts or anyparts that don't effect the internal operation of the bike. We all change oil and fluids but that just maintainance not repairs. Would you bring your bike to me for a blown rod knowing I have never been inside one of these engines before?? If you would you have a serious problem. If I screw it up and have no licenses, permits or a legally registered shop what recourse do you have. Do you think I'm going to give you a 1 year parts and labor warranty?? Guess again, you're going to pay me cash so there's no record therefore no liability. You can take me to small clains court and try to regain some of your damages but the question will arise "Did You know this person was an unlicensed individual." If the answer is yes then you just might lose the case, buyer beware is a big thing in court. If there's no imply warranty thern there's no recourse in many states.
Tech sessions are great for using others knowledge and help but you are part of the process and no funds change hands. Buddies that trust each other are great but business is business and things can get ugly in a heartbeat. Businesses turn away car tires because of liablity issues more than just because it's a car tire. If someone was killed after it was installed the family could ruin their business. I don't blame them for looking out for themselves, their employees and their families futures.
It everyones choice on who they let work oin their bike what I stated is my choice and I stand by it.

 

[wren]

Just spent a little time reading some of the Star forums. Ah, it's nice to know folks argue about the same things everywhere.

Just a quick flash of what I read....

There are those who say that drilling the pipes and doing limited drilling of the airbox (and limited does seem to be important there) and adding a K&N will provide better low-end, smoother engine, better over-all throttle response, yada and yada with stock settings.

And then there's the crowd that hollers "SACRELIGE!!!" and demands immediate installation of electrical units and modifications.

It all sounds so familiar.

Wren