I <snip> A Harley is a long way from a Honda in almost every respect so I would think the comparison would be obvious and the curiosity would be more aimed at more similar bikes.<snip more>

I actually think that my wifes 2006 1300S is very similar in many ways and the most important ways to my 2006 HD Heritage Softail. Both have a similar riding posture. Both have similar size engines. Both have very similar acceleration and top end speed. Both feel similar when riding. Both have about the same level of sound from the pipes. Both get similar fuel mileage. Both are similar in comfort and gear carrying capacity (although the addition of the Tsukayu VTX specific bags to my wife's bike has given her a serious edge in this area). I view the carb vs. EFI and the belt vs shaft drive as fairly minor mechanical differences. On more important mechanical issues like V-twin, no ABS, single rotor front brake, cable clutch not hydraulic, windscreen not fairing, handlebar position, etc. they are the same. Certainly both Honda and HD have a wide range of bike styles with Honda almost certainly having a wider range. I feel that the the VTX 1300 and the HD Softail are very similar bikes.

I've not had an leaking problems from either bike so far and have had to do more "repair" work to my wife's 1300S - mainly carb work and steering bearings but these are minor points. Both bikes have been reliable so far although we've only had them about 3-4 years and only about 15-20,000 miles.

G'day,

Vinish

 

Geeeze Jim...I have to disagree....
belt drive vs Shaft
EFI vs carb
soft tail vs hard tail
liquid cooled vs air cooled
those item make for a completely different motorcycle in nearly every respect. The only similarity being the seat position and acceleration. They are mechanically opposite unless you compare the VTX 1300 to a 10-15 year old Dyna.
Again....why not compare to a Yamaha....or Suzuki?

 

My Uncle (who is a die hard Harley Rider) upon seeing my X (pics) thought at first it was a Harley. He was impressed.

 

Probably curious about the radiator?

 

I'd say the reason is that the branding efforts of Harley Davidson have been really effective. Nearly every cruiser bike, except maybe the Indian, is compared to a Harley. I haven't a clue what market share any of the cruiser manufacturers have here in the US, but there is general perception in most bike circles I've been exposed to that Harley's are what all the other bikes are striving to emulate, so owning a Harley is better.

If you look through all of my posts, you'll not see me bashing Harleys or any other bike.

So what gives? What's the real point of your post? Has something gotten under your skin?

 

If you look through all of my posts, you'll not see me bashing Harleys or any other bike.

So what gives? What's the real point of your post? Has something gotten under your skin?

You never seem to bash anything that I've seen. I appreciate that.
I was having this conversation with a pal the other night and the subject came up...we expanded the conversation to a few more guys and the curiosity was the same. Why compare those two brands all the time? I think your idea is pretty dead on....the marketing thing...but still doesn't seem logical that people would not include other brands...like the European bikes?
I don't have any bug in my butt...LOL....I'm a little curious as to why you'd make this personal rather than an objective observation.
I like my Harley...I liked my VTX....I liked my BMW....I liked my Yamaha.....some things about any bike more than others....but still don't think a VTX and a Harley are much of a comparison....
Maybe a thread from 2 years ago still going with 1400 responses is reason enough to ask the question.
If you could have a new BMW K1400 for the same price as a VTX which would you have?

 

I think it has to do with market share and advertising .. numbers versus image.

I try not to bash any brand.. at one point or another I had to FIX them all.

but I have only OWNED Honda's... just saying.

 

I've worked for all of them - so when I do compare - In the same class size / weight -
All new out of the box - Not comparing old junk.
I take real close notice of small details that either lack or are better.

If it's ride control - Harley wins hands down - with simply internal design of forks.
No one is going to win that argument. New out of the box.

Yamaha - they have their Pluses as well - castings on hand controls are a class above the rest.
They make the best factory saddle bags - no argument there. Harley's in the same class.
Honda went to that class with the Rune - but the castings never carried over.

One can pick out the small details of any machine.
Center of gravity - well that's obvious - Harley & Yamaha do a great job. I only know one guy on the Kawi Cruiser.
I never rode it - so I can't make a call what's not to like. First glance - if it doesn't hit - move on like a Picasso.

Suzuki - Even though primary a Honda dealer - we were forced to sell service them -
the mfg concentrated only on the engine at the time.
I didn't like them as they tried to catch up to the rest - they were cheaper to purchase - so select groups were noticed.
They made it to SuperBike Ok. That's the final Test.

 

Suzuki - Even though we were forced to sell service them - the mfg concentrated only on the engine at the time.
I didn't like them as they tried to catch up to the rest - they were cheaper to purchase - so select groups were noticed.
They made it to SuperBike Ok. That's the final Test.

Back when Honda came out with the VTX 1800, Suzuki the M series, Kawasaki the 1600, Yamaha the Warrior and Harley the V-Rod.....I liked the Kawasaki....boy was I wrong....LOL.....
I don't think much compares to the FJR in longevity, handling and power (overall). They've been around forever and are still top of the line touring bikes.

 

The thing that gets me is not comparing Honda to HD. It's when they compare price. They almost inevitably compare what they paid for their (usually) used VTX, to the cost of a new Ultra Classic.

 

what they paid for their (usually) used VTX, to the cost of a new Ultra Classic.

I'm sure it's Shock & Awe seeing 35k vs 5k. Toyota Celica /M3 can do that too.

 

I think you guys may be missing something in this comparison discussion. You are looking at it through "lenses" of lots of life experience with bikes and are talking about technical details while most buyers see two wheels and a kickstand. While you are considering lots of detailed pluses and minuses, the average buyer is purchasing nostalgia, reputation, and type of bike based upon looks, the influence of marketing and the opinions of their friends.

According to money.msn.com Harley's Market Share in the fourth quarter of 2011 was 59.4%. So at nearly 60% of all bikes on U.S. roads being Harley's it's no wonder people compare everything to them.

 

I agree to an extent but I also see an awful lot of technical discussion here...and it IS a VTX forum (respect). My point is more that there are several, if not many, bikes that would be better compared.
No one has ever mention a Triumph in comparison and they are far closer than a Harley. I saw brand new Triumphs at the dealer the other day starting at $8900.00 for a brand new cruiser and I don't hear bad things about them either. $8900.00 for a brand new cruiser as opposed to a VTX that is at the very least 4 years old now is a fair place to start.
Again I think there are other factors at play....

 

Harley vs Honda, Honda vs Harley... You want real excitement, sit down with your wife some night and tell her your thoughts of how she compares to your ex-wife... then take a look and see whats dripping on the concrete....

I guarantee that she'll "Potato Potato" your azz...

Yee-haw...

 

I think back in the early and mid 80's a lot of the metric stuff was offered in an in line 4 engine and not so much a sport bike. Now then everyone seemed to go to either a sportbike or a cruiser. Cruisers all had V twins and sprotbikes all had in line (with some exceptions) if you wanted a touring machine, you had the wing and all the other metrics that had mostly horizontal opposed (I think). and the V twin harley. Once the cruisers started really taking off most people I knew that were harley people said that everyone was copying Harley apparantly because of the V twin engine. I consider my X to be most likely my buddy's dyna wide glide. Except liquid cooled and shaft drive. Soft tail is totally different animal. The harley baggers are also another animal. When I sit on my X and ride my X I love the feel of how it sits. IMO it SITS more like a soft tail. You sit down into the bike and not up on top of the bike (something I like) The dynas have more of a feel of sitting on top of and not down in like the soft tail. The baggers I have ridden and sat on feel more like you are on top. All the baggers I have ever ridden (harley and wings) are definitely a more comfy ride that doesn't transfer the harshness of the road to you. The dynas feel more like the X and the softails are inbetween the dyna and the bagger. Sportys I have ridden were very stiff and not comfy at all. All of the metric stuff, except the wing and maybe a couple of the suzukis, seem very cheaply made. flimsy and not inviting when I sit on them.

but to the OP I think early on the Harley guys started taking offense and saying they were being copied. They seem bent about it. The metric guys who ride other brands besides hondas don't seem bent at the other metric guys....Kinda like ford and chevy being constantly compaired but you saw less of the chevy being pitted against pontiac, olds, buick...

 

I think some of you are selling the people here a little short. I DO think a lot of people care about liquid cooled, drive shaft features. To suggest that people are buying a seat and a kick stand is very short in my opinion.
8 of 10 posts here are some technical question.

 

Please don't sell my post short. I wasn't saying people are ignorant. I might be , but most aren't. My point wasn't to be taken literally. What I was really saying is that most people don't know all the technical details of the bike they are purchasing and key contributors to their purchase are Marketing, opinions of friends and people they trust, plus the look of the bike.

I cared about liquid cooled and shaft vs. chain, but I knew little else that made the X stand out from any other bike. I purchased it mostly impulsively while having my VLX serviced. I purchased that small 600 at the recommendation of a friend and quickly realized I needed something bigger. The X looked bad to the bone on the showroom floor and was certainly bigger. That was enough for me considering my trust of Honda engines and such. I knew nothing else about it when I bought it but that it was big, looked cool, and was a Honda. While most folks will put a little more effort into researching a purchase, I don't think they'll do a deep dive on all the comparison features you guys are discussing.

While we may disagree (cool with me there) I think the comparisons are mostly to do with market saturation of Harleys, and the stigma/nostalgia they hold in the American biking culture.

 

I think Jim has a very strong point. This is a Honda VTX forum and we will compare what we ride with whats out there.
According to the numbers posted in this thread whats out there is mainly Harley. That would make it worth comparing to.
Are they similar? Yes vaugely. Both may be seen as cruisers, tourers or baggers, if so equipped, but the similarity ends there.
Honda owners tend to feel they have a better product because of the water cooling and shaft drive. EFI on the 1800.
The market doesn't support this mindset. If the bikes were truely superior wouldn't there be more out there? Everything does not depend on marketing. Harley does a better job in that as well.
Price is a factor but not really a limiting one. If you are going to ride it factory direct a Harley may cost more but will all ready have the upgrades you need to pay for on your Honda.

The trashing is usually good natured but uncalled for. If Harley's were as undependable as some claim, would there really be that many on the road, and would they hold their value as well. If you believe that they are that bad then you must think all American made motorcycle riders are just plain stupid.

Interesting thread Frank, and I think Harley riders should be flattered that their bikes are the ones used to measure all the others.

Who really cares what anyone else rides? If you like it thats good enough for me. I don't have to ride what you buy.

 

I made a little post about this the other day Frank, but for those that may not have seen it IMHO this is what the VTX 1800 should be compared to.
If I were in the market for a new power cruiser I would seriously be looking at this. At first glance it even looks like a blacked out 1800 until you get to the twin headlights. To me it's everything the VTX 1800 is and some things it isn't

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/range/cruisers/thunderbird/2013/thunderbird-storm

 

My point exactly Wayne. Those things are hot as a pistol and the price is unreal. That's why, in my original post, I suggest there must be some other reason to compare.
I don't think people are sitting in dark rooms touching themselves and whispering "Harley...Harley" but I do think market share and peer pressure are not the only things at work here.
I'll tell you why I think this way and it's strictly personal.....when I was riding my VTX or my BMW or my Ducati all over the place I got a little pleasure out of the fact that is was DIFFERENT. So I know well that there are emotional leanings when it comes to cars, trucks and bikes.

and damn....those Triumphs are cool. My son rides a ST1000 with 40K on it and has had no mechanical issues in 6 years.

 

hmmm that's funny...went back to make a small edit and got double posted. that's ok though...sometimes you gotta say it twice.

 

hell I have owned and rode the piss out of about every brand of bike under the sun and will talk trash about each of them in a deserving manner.
as far as the hardly bashing mine is in the garage leaking as we speak but mind you its a 1969 ironhead. most of the people who go to bashing brands if you look back through there posts you will find a recent "hey just got my first bike " post. ignorance is bliss closest they have gooten to riding or owning a harley was seeing one at the gas station.
as for the comparison factor, hell 3/4 of the bikes you see on the road are harleys what do you expect?
the only thing alot of people know about harleys is the crap they hear from thier friends and most of it is in reference to the AMC era bikes which leaked like a polish submarine or the older bikes with chain oilers(if you didnt have a puddle under them when you stopped you had issues)
anyway let thier ignorance be you bliss just smile and shake your head...walk away grinning

 

One of the first jobs I had years ago my foreman had an AMF dresser...he rode the piss out of it...never had any issues with it....this guy probably rode 325 days out of the year (northwest Indiana). That was the first of many I rode over the years...

 

Again back to the Thunderbird. Of the two online reviews I've seen they've all been quite glowing. However they were both written by British writers so their probably was some Anglo based bias there. One of them even compared the Thunderbird to ...you guessed it...a Harley.

 

kawi did a 2000 cc vulcan for a few years now talk about a beast

 

I've seen a couple of those kawi's out on the road before. One was a local guy here who died a few months ago. Not sure what happened to the bike. The other was just I guy I ran into while out riding. Big ass motor but the bike itself was kinda plain looking. I wasn't that impressed with it.

 

If I make the more valid comparison of my VTX to a KawAsaki Vaquero, how long will that thread last, what kind of interest will it gather? I don't think there's a Vaquero owner on the board (although I know Bassdude has checked them out) so we can comment on their side opening flimsy hardbags in relative safety.....:bleh:
So the comparisons are to what MOST other guys ride. Even after leaving the VTX world, 1/2 the guys turn to HD, quite a few to Vic and then it drops off a cliff to the other metrics etc.


When I bought my 1800, I compared and considered the Vaquero, the Nomad, the Straotoliner, Boulevard C90T and just for giggles, the M109R since I still love the stock fat tire look. The new "Boss" is hot

I particularly compared to the Victory Cross Country and I still see it as a viable option when I buy my next bike. But at the end of the day,
I decided I didn't want a "bagger in a box" and since my build-skills weren't sufficient but my wallet was, I had to find it and let the original
owner have the depreciation and the glory.

Someone above mentioned the ego of having something really different. Well, I rode with 40 guys last night and at the half way coffee break,
20 guys are standing around my bike wanting to see inside the bags, checking the pipes clearance and asking if the bags get hot and wanting to
hear the stereo cranked.

As much as I admire a Street Glide or Road Glide, I'd want something pretty custom or I'd just be one of 6-7 that I regularly ride with......a comparable (year, mileage) Street Glide is approximately twice the money to what I paid for my 1800 (that's used, not comparing to new) and for all its advantages, it still leaves others to be desired imo.

And all I'd be is "me too". Sorry to others, that's just me.

I like bikes that turn heads and start conversations (ego) so I don't compare my VTX with any HD, almost at all and certainly not to put down another guy's ride.
I'm looking forward to seeing Hoss' bike cause there's nothing like it for instance.

I kinda like these though since I get looking at two tone or simple custom paint jobs as much as anything. Couldn't find better examples quickly

FOR SALE: $50,000!

Ride what you like boys and MEAN IT!

 

I can remember the "Honda versus Harley" thing from way back in the 1970's...My dad, grandfather, and dad's buddies all had Honda's...Then my dad brother had a mid 60's Electraglide, and some other uncle's had old Sportster's and then my cousin'
s hubby had an old Shovelhead that he kick started all the time...Always kinda thought that bike was a hunk of crap, as it always seemed to take him forever to get that thing to fire off, and by that time he was out of breath from kicking it over...But it ran and he was on two wheels...

No idea why all the Honda people immediately compare to Harley, and I've often wondered the same thing myself Frank...Hell back in the 1970's Honda didn't even have a bike that would be considered a "cruiser"..Just standard inline twins and 4's and starting in 1975, the Goldwing with the opposed 4 cylinder....Not exactly a threat to Harley's then monopoly on the cruiser segment...But nowdays there's the Shadow 750 that to the casual shopper that doesn't know squat about motorcycles, closely resembles a Sportster...Then there's also offerings from Victory (Cross Country), Kawasaki (Vaquero), and Honda lame attempt with the FB6 to capture some of Harley's Streetglide customers...

 

the old No Start HD.. more the bike and owner than the brand... LOL

around 1973 . us 5 Japanese type bikes .at a fast food joint.. a kick start only HD went to leave... no one we knew.
we counted 53 kicks before it started.. I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

and being the Dic!!!! that I was back then. I went out and kick started my CB750 using my hand. turned it back off and went back inside.

 

good stuff right there....

 

Why Harley? Same reason that people will come up to someone on a Honda and say, "Nice Harley!"

Harley's are known as cruisers, so if you are comparing cruisers, you are going to be comparing to Harley.

 

Endy may be saying it better than I have. We are comparing a VTX 1300 cruiser to a HD cruiser like a Dyna or (in my case) a softail. If you "bag-out" the VTX, then it seems reasonable to compare it to an HD Roadglide or Streetglide. When my wife and I get on our bikes (a 1300S and an HD Heritage Softail), neither of us gives any thought whatsoever to whether either bike is shaft or belt drive, whether either bike is carb or EFI, whether either bike has the shocks visible or hidden, whether either bike is air or water cooled. We just give it a quick lookover to make sure there is nothing obviously wrong, throw a leg over, press the start button and cruise (sometimes we also mini-tour ) Oh, and Mylilpony likes to race me and she usually wins. I think her 1300 is faster than my 88 c.i. (1452 cc).

G'day,

Vinish

 

the vaquero is a great bike I test rode one my two bitches with it were the bags open to the sides and like all the vulcan series they are set up for pygmys and I couldnt stretch out on it

 

I rode one at Bikeweek....went back and rode it again.....came back home and went to the dealer and rode one. It was smooth, quick, solid and the fixed fairing made up for the goofy bags...no buffeting at all. The size fit me like a glove...but I'm 5'10" with short legs.

 

Bull shit story.. my CB750 had the 850 kit in it.. and I was a weight lifter.. yes with my one hand/arm... and I still have 2 friends that are still alive ... who was there...
your call ... its NOT bull if its true and can be proven.
and it was 1973 and my bike was a 1972....
and re-read the first line on my other post.. MORE the bike and owner than brand.... SOOOOOO I was NOT bashing HD or any other brand.

 

How sturdy are the bags? I think it is one of the best looking of the fixed fairing bikes. I could see it having a nice set of aux lights in the fairing...

 

The Kawasaki Voyager has the exact same fairing with a taller shield, and lights right where you're talking about...If they'd put the Voyager's top-opening bags on the Vaquero, they'd have a real winner...

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?id=723

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gYQC0wqNF8o/TQadFtnmJJI/AAAAAAAAA9A/NeFB7FgiiWg/s1600/pic5.jpg

belt drive...fi...six sp trans....

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gYQC0wqNF8o/TQadFtnmJJI/AAAAAAAAA9A/NeFB7FgiiWg/s1600/pic5.jpg

belt drive...fi...six sp trans....

Dealer here quoted me $14.280.00 out the door for a brand new one. These things rock and I don't understand why I don't see one everytime I look up.

 

Frank, thanks for an interesting thread. :stirpot: JK...... Some very interesting perspectives and valid points. On a more serious note, I still look forward to you bringing back "Dear Crabby"............ Thanks man atriot:

 

I had some good questions of Dear Crabby that have yet to be answered.


Sent from somewhere in the deep East Texas Piney Woods using big fingers and relying solely on auto correct.